Long term effects of hard water on SA cichlids?

[Kaia]

I moved and now my tap water is 8.2 ph gh and kh off the scales of my high range testing kit :/ I slowly adjusted them - there was a scary point where they were not happy but seem fine and have been for a couple months now.
I have all juvies. Is it going to stunt their growth or shorten their lives?
75 gal
1 rotkeil severum
1 electric blue acara
1 koi angel
5 assorted Australian rainbows

 

[Frank Castle]

I was always told keeping fish in the wrong PH won't kill them, but they just won't live as long as expected, for example a fish that would normally live 15 years in 6.0 PH, would only live maybe 10 in a 7.0 PH for example.

Just add some driftwood or peat moss in a big nylon bag, it's much easier than using buffers and the other nonsense.

 

[MonsterFishCreeper]

I was always told keeping fish in the wrong PH won't kill them, but they just won't live as long as expected, for example a fish that would normally live 15 years in 6.0 PH, would only live maybe 10 in a 7.0 PH for example.

Just add some driftwood or peat moss in a big nylon bag, it's much easier than using buffers and the other nonsense.

I haven't used the buffers either but heard they can be more trouble then they're worth. I agree with using some peat moss in a bag. You could also grab an extra HOB filter or a cheap canister and run a bag of peat in there to help. Driftwood is good for fish and will help as well try some bigger logs of mopani or malaysian driftwood. These methods may stain your water for a while but your fish will be very happy.

 

[dan518]

^agree,,,, rainbows come from hard water if my memory correct, make sure you have something releasing tannins bog wood or dried leaves

 

[Frank Castle]

I haven't used the buffers either but heard they can be more trouble then they're worth. I agree with using some peat moss in a bag. You could also grab an extra HOB filter or a cheap canister and run a bag of peat in there to help. Driftwood is good for fish and will help as well try some bigger logs of mopani or malaysian driftwood. These methods may stain your water for a while but your fish will be very happy.

well, they call them "Blackwater" species for a reason

 

[aztsm]

Are you in az?? Well that's what I deal with here myself. Nitrates are off the chart as well straight from the tap. IMO you either go with ro or rodi water or tap without any buffers or nonsense. Obviously I wouldn't get a fish that requires soft low pH water, but I think any fish that was raised in your local water will be fine. I've never kept a fish long enough or been able to determine the cause of death due to my tap water. I had a GT for 3 or 4 years that developed hole in the head but that's the longest I've ever kept a fish. I've kept almost all the fish you have. Grew out a huge male electric blue acara, severum, and rainbow fish. Also breed the acaras and rainbows. I just stick to large weekly water changes

 

[Frank Castle]

Are you in az?? Well that's what I deal with here myself. Nitrates are off the chart as well straight from the tap. IMO you either go with ro or rodi water or tap without any buffers or nonsense. Obviously I wouldn't get a fish that requires soft low pH water, but I think any fish that was raised in your local water will be fine. I've never kept a fish long enough or been able to determine the cause of death due to my tap water. I had a GT for 3 or 4 years that developed hole in the head but that's the longest I've ever kept a fish. I've kept almost all the fish you have. Grew out a huge male electric blue acara, severum, and rainbow fish. Also breed the acaras and rainbows. I just stick to large weekly water changes

yea.....GT have been known to live over 15 years......I can't see him doing well in 8.0 PH or more.....Mine are at 7-7.4 and the growth rate seems slow as it is, I kinda want to drop it down to 6.8 or maybe even less

 

[duanes]

Although a fish may have been raised in hard water, or even a number of generations bred in hard water, that does not supersede the millennia it took for that fish to live in the water it has evolved to live.
Though a species native to soft waters my survive nicely for a number of years, the long term effect may be what you see in hundreds of old oscars and severums that end up scarred with hole in the head, and dropped at LFSs.
With some species, degradation from the wrong type water is more immediate than others, we have all seen soft water Geos end up scarred and unhealthy in a fairly short time.
Because your rainbows are hard water fish, they should be fine. But my suggestion would be to try and go with fish that have evolved to live in the water you have.
I have always wanted Uaru fernadenzeppizi, but I realized long ago, putting them in my hard water would not be prudent, and a costly mistake, and went with species that worked instead.
A help might be to add enough tannins (which are bacterial inhibitors) to counteract the type bacteria that thrive in hard water, and that fish from softer waters have not built up an immunity to. I don't believe its just the hard water alone, but those bacteria in combination with the minerals that mar soft water fish, when forced to live in hard water.

 

[ehh]

about the osacrs getting hole in the head, duanes. is there any science to back that up? i live in an area with really hard water and i see so many oscars with hole in the head. i don't think I've ever read about that being a factor in causing hith.

 

[duanes]

While my theory in anecdotal, we do know that certain bacteria flourish in certain environmental conditions, and that the tannins in "blackwater" inhibit certain bacteria.
From my own experience, while working as a microbiologist, part of my job was to grow cultures of "filter media " bacteria in the lab. I tried to grow some of those cultures in DI water (water devoid of minerals) to eliminate contaminants, and others in de-chlorinated tap water (the hard water where I worked). The cultures using tap water tended to grow about 80%-90% more bacteria. Though not a scientifically controlled experiment, because after a few tries in DI, I gave up trying and stuck to tap to get my job done.
This lead to my theory, and personal opinion about the chronic effects of hard water on soft water species. Where I lived LFSs were always getting dropped of scarred oscars (and other Amazonian species), and while I would agree that high nitrates from paltry water change regimes would also rank high on the list for causes of chronic conditions, even aquarists with heavy water change regimes were seeing the HITH prevalence in old soft water species in my area.
I would also relate that when I tried soft water Geophines in my water, my success was negligible, but if I worked with those west of the Andes, or southern South America where waters are naturally more mineral enriched, my success rates soared in comparison.
This theory would be a great challenge for some grad student/aquarist to prove or disprove. Now that I'm retired, I don't have the means to pull it off.