They can. It can be introduced from food, cross contamination from other tanks, tank mates, lots of ways. Even if they don't have IP prazi will increase your rays appetite
Lost a ray today
- Thread starter Dixon81
- Start date
I'm really sorry for your loss, I know how devastating it can be.
Nitrates look high, but that's not what caused the death. It could be a factor toward suppressing immune system that allowed something else to take hold, but not the acute cause of death. Hhigh nitrate seems to do the most damage while in the presence of ammonia or nitrite which you have none of.
It does look thin, I've seen thinner but that's an observation. Any irregular behaviors? What's the feeding schedule like? Any puncture marks along the underside of the disc? Punctures on the top are really hard to see without a bright light. It could have also swallowed a shed bard, this is a reason why I like barebottom, it's easier to spot and remove shed barbs. Use caution if you choose to dig around in the mouth.
Dissections are heartbreaking and difficult. If you choose to do one, which is respectable either way you decide, you can use the thread we put together a month or so ago at the top of the stingray forum. Be safe.
The pictures looks like a prolapsed anus or protrusion. This could have happened after death as the body releases muscle function, or before. Is the anus prolapsed or anything protruding at this point?
The biggest concern now is the other ray. What other tankmates are there? any new additions? Test your drip water from your source also.
Yes seeing the other photo that ray looks really skinny also, you may need to feed more often and generously. Could be parasites but I suspect they are captive bred, I think I know the breeder so they definitely didn't come with any parasites. Praziquantel can't hurt as it is an appetite stimulant with some fish. Do they eat pellets? I always advocate feeding juvenile rays at least twice a day until they refuse food. If you're on a once a day routine beef that up
Nitrates look high, but that's not what caused the death. It could be a factor toward suppressing immune system that allowed something else to take hold, but not the acute cause of death. Hhigh nitrate seems to do the most damage while in the presence of ammonia or nitrite which you have none of.
It does look thin, I've seen thinner but that's an observation. Any irregular behaviors? What's the feeding schedule like? Any puncture marks along the underside of the disc? Punctures on the top are really hard to see without a bright light. It could have also swallowed a shed bard, this is a reason why I like barebottom, it's easier to spot and remove shed barbs. Use caution if you choose to dig around in the mouth.
Dissections are heartbreaking and difficult. If you choose to do one, which is respectable either way you decide, you can use the thread we put together a month or so ago at the top of the stingray forum. Be safe.
The pictures looks like a prolapsed anus or protrusion. This could have happened after death as the body releases muscle function, or before. Is the anus prolapsed or anything protruding at this point?
The biggest concern now is the other ray. What other tankmates are there? any new additions? Test your drip water from your source also.
Yes seeing the other photo that ray looks really skinny also, you may need to feed more often and generously. Could be parasites but I suspect they are captive bred, I think I know the breeder so they definitely didn't come with any parasites. Praziquantel can't hurt as it is an appetite stimulant with some fish. Do they eat pellets? I always advocate feeding juvenile rays at least twice a day until they refuse food. If you're on a once a day routine beef that up
Thank you for the informative reply.
No irregular behaviors to speak of. Although I did notice the ray that died seemed to be more active in the water column the past few days. Almost like riding the air stone bubbles up at the surface then back down. Both rays were very active lastnight. I fed after work around 5:30 and both seemed to eat normally. I have been feeding once a day cut up raw market shrimp since I got them back in February. I can say that they seemed to not eat as vigorously lately. Could that be due to higher nitrates? I looked over the ray pretty good and didn't see any sort of puncture marks. I don't think they have shed a barns yet.
The Rays were the last to be added to the tank in February. 12" long silver aro, 6- silver dollars and 1 Geo are the tankmates.
Nitrate tests directly from the drip is attached. The red is tank sample and brownish is drop sample
I have tried sinking pellets in the past with no luck. Should I try the massivore sinking?
I need to get my nitrates down to hopefully help stimulate appetite. I will grab Prazi and dose if anything to help appetite. Should I try cut up earthworms to get hem eating better quicker?
Breeder was local to me outside of Boston. (natick)
Thanks again
Can you test your drip for ammonia and nitrite if you only did nitrate? That could explain the sudden boost in nitrate inside of the tank.
I stand corrected I don't know the breeder, so IP is possible. Prazi for sure. Yes! Power feed the remaining one, worms, fish, whatever it will take. do you feed shrimp or smelt? If you do, do you use vita chem or B1 supplement?
There's a theory about Thiaminase (contained in smelt and shrimp) and rays. That it can cause acute death or infertility over time. Thiaminase breaks down vitamin b1 (thiamine) so if you don't feed something with B1, your fish can get deficient on a smelt/shrimp containing diet. If they eat pellets this usually negates this. Your usual tilapia which doesn't contain thiaminase, but doesn't have enough thiamine B1 to offset the loss from the thiaminase contained in other foods fed.
I know breeders that believe this. I have no data supporting this to stingrays. There is a ton of data showing thiaminase heavy diets having negative health impacts on lake trout and other species. This usually happens when alewives or smelt (both contain thiaminase) have been introduced and outcompete the native food fish high in thiamine. Over time the predatory fish get deficient from lack of nutrient, why the lake trout in some great lakes are going infertile.
Try soaking whatever food you choose in boyd vitachem. It contains B1 even though the Guaranteed analysis on the label omits it. You'll see it in the ingredient list. Seachem nourish unfortunately does not contain thiamine so I don't use it for this purpose. If you can get them accepting pellets, pretty much every reputable brand contains B1.
This is a hunch we discuss. Giving you ideas to think over. Good luck
I stand corrected I don't know the breeder, so IP is possible. Prazi for sure. Yes! Power feed the remaining one, worms, fish, whatever it will take. do you feed shrimp or smelt? If you do, do you use vita chem or B1 supplement?
There's a theory about Thiaminase (contained in smelt and shrimp) and rays. That it can cause acute death or infertility over time. Thiaminase breaks down vitamin b1 (thiamine) so if you don't feed something with B1, your fish can get deficient on a smelt/shrimp containing diet. If they eat pellets this usually negates this. Your usual tilapia which doesn't contain thiaminase, but doesn't have enough thiamine B1 to offset the loss from the thiaminase contained in other foods fed.
I know breeders that believe this. I have no data supporting this to stingrays. There is a ton of data showing thiaminase heavy diets having negative health impacts on lake trout and other species. This usually happens when alewives or smelt (both contain thiaminase) have been introduced and outcompete the native food fish high in thiamine. Over time the predatory fish get deficient from lack of nutrient, why the lake trout in some great lakes are going infertile.
Try soaking whatever food you choose in boyd vitachem. It contains B1 even though the Guaranteed analysis on the label omits it. You'll see it in the ingredient list. Seachem nourish unfortunately does not contain thiamine so I don't use it for this purpose. If you can get them accepting pellets, pretty much every reputable brand contains B1.
This is a hunch we discuss. Giving you ideas to think over. Good luck
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The picture was just taken. All tests are directly from the drip emmiter
I feed raw shrimp no supplements. Sounds like I need to change up the diet.
I can't prove thiaminase heavy diets are bad for stingrays. But without supplementation but I strongly suspect they are. work on adding pellets to the diet, and soaking frozen in vita chem once in a while
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It seems to be widely accepted that thiaminase "poisoning" is a reality in fw rays. I've actually done a ton of research on this subject. While there hasn't been any controlled studies done specifically on fw rays, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting the theory that thiaminase causes B1 deficiency in fw rays leading to shortened life spans and infertility.
I'm sorry for your loss, that is tough for any ray keeper to experience. What are your pH readings and are they stable on a consistent basis? I would tend to agree this looks internal as there are no injuries or excessive redness on the belly.
Yes this lil one is skinny. Try and get it eating three times per day. I didn't see a size posted so here are two of mine to compare with so you have an idea of the amount of fat to shoot for at different growth stages like
Bigfishnut
mentioned As you can see there are no hip bones and there is a reserve of fat where the bones would be.
Henlei @ 5"
Hybrid @ 12"
Not totally sure that's the cause of death so still do the waterchanges, treat with prazi, and fatten that other awesome ray up 
there's still work to do
there's still work to do
Not totally sure that's the cause of death so still do the waterchanges, treat with prazi, and fatten that other awesome ray up
Agreed 100%. Might not hurt to ensure you have some extra air running in the tank while you medicate as well
Dixon81
I would try to keep it a on the warm side as well.