Male Pink Con or Hybrid?

[dogofwar]

I understand the controversy around Amatitlania... although the different "convict" species represented are quite different. Within siquia and nigrofasciata, though, there is also a huge amount of diversity.

I've been keeping and breeding "convicts" for probably 25 years. They're probably my favorite fish (and I have probably 10 different kinds - and am breeding - all 4 "species in my fishroom). A. kanna (Panama cons) aren't at all hard to breed

I know that "back in the day" it was not at all "wrong" to find a really pretty female (for example with lots of orange) and find a really pretty male (say with lots of blue...but from a strain with less orange females) and breed them. They were all "convicts". Now we know better...not that this doesn't happen a lot still. Who knows the origin of the original pink convicts...let alone the batch that included this weird looking one.

I take the position that unless one can prove the provenance of a fish back to a wild population, then it's purity is suspect.

As an aside, I've found that some LFS are willing to give good credit (and are able to sell at decent prices) wild-type "convicts" and HRPs with provenance.

Matt

Well not everyone recognizes the new genus Amatitlania......the Cichlid Room Companion does not, for at least the last 2 years, and lists the convicts as Cryptoheros species.

A convict is such an easy fish to breed, it is quite conceivable that aquarium strain convicts owe their ancestory to only one importation.I don't think the history of convict importation is well known, so who knows for sure? Yes, in more recent times, there are wild caught from many locations, but for many decades, virtually nothing was being imported from Central America.

It's certainly conceivable that aquarium strain convicts are Cryptoheros siquia or Cryptoheros nigrofasciata. Less likely C. coatepeque since they only come from one lake; somewhat less likely C. kanna, I would think for a number of reasons, including, from what I understand, they are not as easily bred. That aquarium strain convicts are a mix of these species assumes that they were originally imported from a number of very different locations, and that the resulting crosses continued on to this day .....rather then a single importation of a very easily bred fish that took over the market.

Anyways, no different then just about any aquarium strain cichlid...they could be a cross of closely related species. Some probably are....some probably not. Just another example: 3 species of JD described (Rocio octafacita, R. octocal, R. gemmeta)......aquarium strain JD could be a mix of these species as we do not know where aquarium strain JD originate from.

 

[FishFreak95]

Inbred?

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[bigspizz]

LFS cons are most likely hybrids because the fish that was once known as Archocentrus nigrofasciatus is now four different species (and a new genus, Amatitlania): A. siquia, nigrofasciata, kanna and coatepeque.

Anyone know which species of "convict" went into producing the pink ones? Not likely...nor was it a concern.

Matt

I know this is late, but, I have no clue what you are saying...My LFS, has an owner who goes to C. and S. America and collects species. So, if hybridizing happens in the wild, regularly, (which is a whole other debate) I think my statement stands as previously stated.... Thanks though.

 

[jonclark96]

I'm not sure what the "other statement" is that you are supporting. Are you saying that pink cons "Step away from the norm"? What does this mean? As far as the question of weather or not LFS pink convicts are hybrids, I think it is safe to say that unless you have a pair with provenance to the wild that starts throwing leucistic fry, the safest assumption is that these fish are hybrids. Also, the four separate species of convicts (if you agree that they are indeed 4 separate species) typically not located in the same water systems in the wild. So the argument that siquia and negrofaciatus are breeding in the wild is not correct.

Years ago, fish farmers bred the prettiest females with the prettiest males to get pretty fish to sell in fish stores. As these fish were all classified as the same species, there wasn't any thoughts of hybridization. For anyone to claim that LFS cons of any variety are pure species is pretty naive.