Generally when you post something on a message board, it's so that you'll receive comments from people. Most of us who post pictures of builds of aquariums or cages on internet message boards are looking for the best possible results, and are open to at least hearing suggestions. No, you didn't ask for help; I was simply trying to be nice and make things a little easier on you. There was no reason for you to go off the deep end carrying on the way you have. You can criticize me for trying to help you all you want. I haven't accused you of neglecting your animals at all. I haven't accused you of doing anything wrong, asides from pointing out the fact that you don't list any information about a rescue and still call yourself a rescue while soliciting donations. And that, once again, was trying to help you; labeling yourself a rescue can result in legal ramifications. If you don't have documentation backing you up, you can be charged with fraud. Simply by trying to help out a snake you adopted and brought into a better home you could wind up losing your business and your home, or even wind up in prison. And your response is to curse at me.
I listed one source, which is one more than you could provide. The anapsid.org article I already linked to is one very valid source. Your only response is to ignore it and ask me for sources. So, here you go- the readily available Barron's series installment "Pythons" written by Bartlett & Wagner says on page 26. "Bulbs of this type will make any plants in the cage healthier, but this type of lighting does not seem necessary for snakes. We have seen perfectly healthy pythons that have been raised under incandescent lighting all of their lives, and the same can be said for fluorescent lighting." Another readily available Barron's publication "Boas," written by Doug Wagner has this to say about lighting on page 30, "Although it is currently accepted that snakes do not require full-spectrum lights like other reptiles, many keepers still use them, both for their color quality and for the more natural ultraviolet light produced." Later in the same section he says, "If enough ambient light is present from windows or skylights, no additional light is needed, and the natural photoperiod of day and night is sufficient. Additional cage lighting can be in the form of incandescent or fluorescent bulbs, connected to a timer to regulate photoperiod."
Veterinarypartner.com says, "No special lighting is needed. You may use a full-spectrum light or low wattage incandescent bulb in the enclosure during the day but snake, having evolved to living underground, have not need for regular full-spectrum/UV lighting. If you do use such a light in the tank, make sure the snake cannot get into direct contact with the light bulbs, nor burrow itself into the casing of the fluorescent hood." Both of those books mention the sufficient size of caging as well, with page 25 of "Boas" stating, "A good rule of thumb for cage space is to select a cage that is 2/3 the length of the snake...4 to 6 feet (1.2-1.8m) long for most boa constrictors." The installment "Pythons" says on page 17, "As far as the sanke is concerned, overall length of the cage should be roughly 2/3 of the snake's length; cage width can be a little less, perhaps half the length of your snake. There is room for adjustment in these figures; the goal is to give the snake enough room to turn around."
Dave and Tracy Barker of Vida Preciosa International, Inc. are commonly accepted as a top source for anything they have to say about snakes. They've been in the business of keeping and breeding snakes far longer than most everyone else in the business, make their entire livings from snakes, and have direct hands-on experience with thousands of snakes. They've also achieved the first captive-breedings of numerous species of snakes, including Irian Jaya carpets, scrub pythons, savu pythons, water pythons, and several other species. In their care sections they go into great detail about everything yet
never mention lighting. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you use UVB or not. And on cage size for boa constrictors they say:
-Cage size: Common boa constrictors require a secure well-ventilated cage. A glass aquarium with a secure ventilated top (screen wire or perforated metal) can be a satisfactory cage to display these beautiful snakes. Plastic storage boxes, with numerous perforations for ventilation, can be satisfactorily used to maintain boa constrictors. We raise our young boas to breeding size in 3' x 2' Vision cages. We keep the largest specimens in 4' x 3' Habitat System cages.
(Found at:
http://www.vpi.com/publications/boa_constrictor) That's right. Their LARGEST boas are kept in cages 4' x 3'. You can do any amount of research and come up with hundreds of professional breeders who keep hundreds of animals each in plastic storage tubs, racks designed specifically to house snakes, and other forms of plastic caging. Check and see how many of those have UVB lighting inside the cages. If you want to argue about cage height, look at the cages breeders use. Look at boaphile cages, Animal Plastics, Habitat System, or any other plastic caging. Check the height on them. Most cages that are a suitable size for boas are 12", 18", or 24".
As for how far UVB reaches from the bulb, you simply have to look at the box. Zoomed's ReptiSun 5.0 says,
Provide the exact band of rays within the UVB spectrum for maximum Vitamin D3 synthesis and calcium absorption. ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Bulbs supply an amazing 5.0% UVB and up to 30% UVA; outputs active UVB up to 12" from the bulb's surface. The bulb's UVA/UVB wavelength remains effective for 1 to 1-1/2 years.
For any other bulbs, simply look at the packaging for info. I don't feel the need to cite more sources when there is absolutely nothing claiming otherwise, and visible packaging lists exactly what it is.
And talk about your 33 years of experience because you saw a snake once. I didn't say I SAW my first snake 17 years ago. I said I've been KEEPING reptiles for 17 years. In the past 17 years not only have I been responsible for the care of a small zoo, I've personally kept turtles, lizards, and snakes. I've successfully bred and hatched several species of reptiles, including thousands of bearded dragons and hundreds of North American rat snakes of the
Elaphe genus. And like I said before; I currently have 18 snakes. That's a breeding group of 18 snakes, including several species of rat snakes, carpet pythons, and boas. I've raised somewhere in the range of 100 snakes from hatchling to adulthood. My oldest snake is currently around 9 years old, and she is one I've raised from only a couple weeks old. She has never once in her entire life been under UVB light, and has grown from something a little larger than a pencil to something as thick around as a soda can and 6.5 feet long. Tell me she can't "properly metabolize certain vitamins and minerals" again. That's 17 years of hands-on, first-hand experience with animals that have turned out to be perfectly healthy, many of which have received check ups by a reptile vet who could find absolutely nothing wrong with them. This isn't me saying, "You can cram it in there with no light, and sometimes it'll live." This is me giving hundreds of examples of exactly what I have seen with my own two eyes.
and can someone show me a place in the wild where snakes are confined to tiny little glass enclosures? When did humans gain the ultimate wisdom to decide what's large enough for a snake anyway? Aren't we talking 10's of 1000's of years vs. millions of years of evolution here? I think snakes have been around just a little longer than humans... I think snakes have a natural environment that exceeds 18 inches in height. I think nature knows better than any of us can even imagine and it's a bit pretentious to even CONSIDER competing with a life cycle that started 4.5 billion years ago.. ..or is it 6.5 billion? awfully big number.. I remember seeing a snake when I was 4 years old.. I'd say that constitutes an experience. So I guess I'll say I have 33 years of experience with snakes.. yeah that's a good number.. sounds great.
What does this have to do with
anything? I already said animals use more space in the wild than we can possibly provide. I already said if you released an animal in the wild, it would use the space of the wild. You . . . gave another example of the same thing? The only thing that quote says to me is that you feel snakes shouldn't be kept in cages. If that's the argument you want to use, I could just as easily say you cage isn't appropriate because it doesn't have plants native to Asia, doesn't have the proper seasonal fluctuations, doesn't allow for thermoregulation, doesn't introduce native diseases to the animal, and doesn't contain any predators. And I discussed cage height above; read it again and maybe you'll understand this time.
I posted something trying to make life a little easier on you, and offering some first-hand experience that could help you. You retaliate by cursing at me, telling me what an idiot I am, and accusing me of half-assing things. I've given you more than one source for the information I've provided trying to help you, and the only thing you've done is attack me. At this point, I've only posted because I'm hoping anyone else reading this will see the correct information. This thread has ceased to be a discussion about animals and their well-being and has become a yelling match (albeit where one person explains something calmly and rationally, and the other screams and curses). I'll not respond to this again.
wned:
