MonsterFishKeeping - Blasted

[sandtiger]

FYI, Hes had this setup for years. Even before mfk started.

Could you expand on this please? Years? MFK has been around what...4 years? Some of those fish can live over a decade, they being alive after 4 years is, I'm sorry, not a very big deal IMO. But maybe he has had them longer, I don't know for certain. I know that the tank in the MFK calander does not look like this one. Granted, it's the same tank but there are different fish in it. I have maintained tanks for years as well but as the years go by they are never really the same tank. Sure, the glass box and filters might be the same but the fish may be different. I may have added new ones, some may have died, some may have simply grown.

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Sandtiger - very interesting research, thanks for sharing....

Love it when people back themselves up with research and data!

 

[unknownuza13]

Sandtiger thanks for the info.... I'm not sure why they used such obscure fish as testing subjects as opposed to ones you would actually find more readily in home aquariums.It would be cool to see similar studies with cichlids, catfish, etc and see how the results turn out.

3.3ppm of nitrate was shown to have adverse side effects. I don't know of anyone who keeps their nitrates below this level no matter the filtration. Does this mean nobody should keep fish? You yourself said that you keep your nitrates below 20ppm with weekly water changes which leads me to believe yours are around the 15ppm range almost 5x the amount that can be detrimental to fish.

After re reading the paragraph about the striped bass I am convinced they are affected by nitrates much more than the typical aquarium fish. The ill side effects they were experiencing such as blindness happened only a few months after being exposed to the nitrates. The person I know who has had fish breed in high nitrate 160-220 has had the set up for approx two years. Much longer than they exposed the test subjects to high nitrates. I think the most recent breeding activity happened a few months ago. Obviously you should not strive for such high levels of nitrate in the water but causing blindness in fish after a few months is a bit extreme.

 

[sandtiger]

Sandtiger thanks for the info.... I'm not sure why they used such obscure fish as testing subjects as opposed to ones you would actually find more readily in home aquariums.It would be cool to see similar studies with cichlids, catfish, etc and see how the results turn out.

The trout were likely used because of their relation to aquaculture, the same for the striped bass and medaka are commonly used in scientific studies.

3.3ppm of nitrate was shown to have adverse side effects. I don't know of anyone who keeps their nitrates below this level no matter the filtration. Does this mean nobody should keep fish? You yourself said that you keep your nitrates below 20ppm with weekly water changes which leads me to believe yours are around the 15ppm range almost 5x the amount that can be detrimental to fish.

Well with over 25,000 species of fish it's bound to be different depending on the species. Trout/salmon were the subjects used in that study and they are fairly sensitive, I myself find it hard to beleive that a nitrate reading that low would have effects but again...it all depends on the species. Some are more hardy them others. Oscars for example are pretty sensitive to high nitrates, it is thought to cause HITH. They say oscars should have a reading below 40-20pmm. That's why I keep mine as low as I do in the case of my oscar.

After re reading the paragraph about the striped bass I am convinced they are affected by nitrates much more than the typical aquarium fish. The ill side effects they were experiencing such as blindness happened only a few months after being exposed to the nitrates. The person I know who has had fish breed in high nitrate 160-220 has had the set up for approx two years. Much longer than they exposed the test subjects to high nitrates. I think the most recent breeding activity happened a few months ago. Obviously you should not strive for such high levels of nitrate in the water but causing blindness in fish after a few months is a bit extreme.

That was a constant level of nitrates, I don't think it fluctuated. Meaning it was never higher or lower. The person you know who had fish breed in high levels of nitrates probably did not have that reading constantly, it probably changed with water changes and such. Also, it is very easy to screw up a nitrate test, they are difficult to read and they do expire after some time. It could be that his readings were just wrong. What kind of fish and setup did he have BTW?

 

[Jesse]

10ppm of nitrate-nitrogen (that's a mere 3.03 ppm of nitrate) has been shown to have adverse effects on salmonids such as Oncorhynchus mykiss, Oncorhynchus tshawytscha and Salmo clarki, as well as upon a number of freshwater invertebrates and frogs.

I'm not surprised. Salmonids require exceptional water quality and oxygenation. That's why they are rarely if ever successfully kept in aquaria.

I try to keep the nitrate levels in my tank at 20 ppm or lower. Of course, I don't have any salmonids or FW rays.

 

[sandtiger]

Excessive levels of nitrate are also directly harmful to aquatic animals. Aquatic invertebrates and fish exposed to nitrate may be smaller, slower to mature, or have lower reproductive success. Under extremely high exposure levels, aquatic invertebrates and fish may die. Early life stages of aquatic animals are more sensitive to nitrate than are juvenile and adult animals. Larval stages of amphibians appear to be particularly sensitive to subtle effects from nitrate exposure. For example, nitrate can reduce the overall size and weight of frog tadpoles by the time they change into adults. This may reduce their ability to compete for food or mates or to escape from predators.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/ceqg-rcqe/English/Html/GAAG_Nitrate_WQG.cfm

What levels should I be aiming for?
Try to keep the nitrate level as low as possible. Some fish and inverts are particularly sensitive to raised levels. For inverts and sensitive marines, the levels msut be below 15ppm. Tropical freshwater species should be kept below 40ppm, where possible.
What effect will high nitrate levels have on my fish?
High levels of nitrate will stress your fish. This affects their immune systems and they are much more at risk from diseases such as whitespot.

Increased levels over a long term may reduce your fishes' lifespans, cause deformities and won't help much if you're trying to breed them - poor water quality doesn't put fish in the mood.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=7

 

[redtailfool]

Could you expand on this please? Years? MFK has been around what...4 years? Some of those fish can live over a decade, they being alive after 4 years is, I'm sorry, not a very big deal IMO. But maybe he has had them longer, I don't know for certain. I know that the tank in the MFK calander does not look like this one. Granted, it's the same tank but there are different fish in it. I have maintained tanks for years as well but as the years go by they are never really the same tank. Sure, the glass box and filters might be the same but the fish may be different. I may have added new ones, some may have died, some may have simply grown.

Sure thing, As i have said , Marshy has had a Japanese - style setup even before MFK started. Ever try keeping freshwater stingrays before? I would go out on a limb and say No.

As most of the fishkeepers who have forayed into freshwater stingrays, deaths will occur. Some intermediate fishkeepers have even had a hard time keeping them for more than 1 year let alone more than 4. Belittling the fact that an individual would be able to keep stingrays for more than 4 years by saying that its not a very big deal , is a bit rough i think.


I do understand that high nitrates can be detrimental to a fish , even fatal long-term. but you have to give credit where credit is due. The man has kept exotic fish in highly stocked conditions and the fish look immaculate. He might have added or removed some fish but i still recognize the staple fishes in there.



And hey, arent we Monsterfishkeepers here? We are supposed to keep big fishes , right ?

 

[sandtiger]

Sure thing, As i have said , Marshy has had a Japanese - style setup even before MFK started. Ever try keeping freshwater stingrays before? I would go out on a limb and say No.

I'm not a big fan of Japanese style aquaria. Them seem to focus more on the owners wants then the fishes needs. Sure, they keep the fish alive and often healthy but they seem more concerned with it being a status symbol and treat it more like a car or jewelry then actual living things. Not trying to offend the Japanese or Marshy or anything like that but I just don't like em. And no, I have not kept freshwater stingrays before and from what I have heard they are difficult to care for.

As most of the fishkeepers who have forayed into freshwater stingrays, deaths will occur. Some intermediate fishkeepers have even had a hard time keeping them for more than 1 year let alone more than 4. Belittling the fact that an individual would be able to keep stingrays for more than 4 years by saying that its not a very big deal , is a bit rough i think.

And hopefully they will survive many more years, I'm concerned that with his current stocking ratio and nitrate levels that they won't. Four years isen't even half of the expected lifespan of a freshwater stingray, fish that can live up to 20 years. Nitrates reduce lifespan, we'll see how long they make it.

I do understand that high nitrates can be detrimental to a fish , even fatal long-term. but you have to give credit where credit is due. The man has kept exotic fish in highly stocked conditions and the fish look immaculate. He might have added or removed some fish but i still recognize the staple fishes in there.

And I did give him credit. I said in my very first post in this thread that his fish look great and I still stand by that.

And hey, arent we Monsterfishkeepers here? We are supposed to keep big fishes , right ?

I have no problem with monster fish, I like em just fine. It's the stocking I don't agree with.

 

[rallysman]

All of that can be solved with a drip system.

TA DAAA!!!!!!

 

[sandtiger]

All of that can be solved with a drip system.

TA DAAA!!!!!!

Yup, they certainly help.