My Ball Python

[Ophiuchus]

Your pet yur choice. I see it differently, I would rather not take a chance on injuring another pet.

Naw, man...you just don't get it. All the cool kids are doing it. Who cares if your pet might get hurt...I mean, the only reason to have a snake is for your own personal entertainment, right?

Sheesh...people can be so dense sometimes.

 

[dougefresh]

Very Cute Ball Python!!!!

Thanks.......

 

[elevatethis]

I'll give my take on the whole live vs. dead prey debate...

Just as a pretense, I feed my entire collection live prey, in each snake's enclosure. In my years of keeping snakes and doing this, I've not had a single rodent bite or injury caused by a rodent, nor are any of my snakes aggressive towards me.

There's a lot more to feeding live prey than just dropping a live rodent into an enclosure with a snake.

The size of the prey being offered is a huge consideration in determining which method is better or safer.

Generally, feeding young rodents (less than 4 weeks of age) is completely safe even if the rodent is left with an uninterested snake for a short period of time.

Live feeding becomes dangerous when dealing with larger snakes that require, larger, more mature prey with self-awareness and fully developed defenses. For example, feeding large, live rabbits to burms. This practice is highly dangerous for the snake and many keepers of large boids feed frozen thawed prey for this reason.

However, feeding a ball python a young rat or mouse poses little or no threat to the snake.

If your ball python is properly cared for, in that its temperature and humidity is ideal and the snake is in optimal health, as well as being conditioned to know when to expect to be fed, they will feed readily on live prey with little risk of injury.

Its dumb to have an argument and make blanket statements like "its dangerous to feed live" because the issue is just way more complicated than that. All species are somewhat unique in their care and behavior - blood pythons have been found to eat carrion in the wild, while arboreal species like green tree pythons rarely encounter dead prey. Cornsnakes are know to raid rodent burrows and eat entire litters of newborn rodents, feeding on multiple smaller prey items. If you do a little research, its obvious which species would be more inclined to eat f/t in captivity, which species might prefer more smaller meals, etc.

Hope that helps shed some light on the issue.

 

[Z Trip]

I can't wait to get my Royal python at the end of the month!!!!!!!!

 

[Ophiuchus]

Well, I generally agree with most of that. But I have had my BP for 13 yrs, and its just not feasible to feed him a dozen fuzzies at a time. I've had adult mice bite adult pythons before and some of the BPs became reluctant to eat live after that.

Using the "I've never had an issue feeding live" excuse is just like saying, "I've never worn a helmet while riding my motorbike and I've never had an accident." The liklihood of an accident may be slim, but is the comfort of not wearing a helmet worth the risk?

I agree that many species refuse F/T and must take live. But I've had enough bad experiences with rodent attacks, that if my snakes will eat f/t, that's what they're gonna get. I just don't feel like treating bite wounds every day or worse, making vet visits for those infected cases...especially when I know the whole thing could have been prevented.

 

[walls]

Whats the difference between a large "aware" rabbit and an adult "aware" mouse?? Your arguement makes no sense here, a three foot snake is at the same risk of being bitten by an adult mouse than a large burm and a rabbit. Yes the rabbit is bigger than a mouse but the Burm is obviously bigger than three feet as well.

And I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject and at least 95% of breeders/keepers feed pre-killed for the same reasons stated above.

I also agree with the above statement........Like Im gonna feed my Boa 15 rat "pups" as apposed to one proplerly sized rodent.

 

[Ophiuchus]

I guess it depends on whether you have a lot invested in your animals or if they're just a source of cheap thrills.

 

[elevatethis]

But I have had my BP for 13 yrs, and its just not feasible to feed him a dozen fuzzies at a time.

Like Im gonna feed my Boa 15 rat "pups" as apposed to one proplerly sized rodent.

I re-read what I said and you guys misunderstood. I was just illustrating how different species have different needs. I did not mean to convey that you should feed you boa mouse fuzzies, that's rediculous. A corn snake on the other hand, would have no problem eating a ton of small prey items. I'm not saying that's what you absolutely should do, but it would work.

Whats the difference between a large "aware" rabbit and an adult "aware" mouse?? Your arguement makes no sense here, a three foot snake is at the same risk of being bitten by an adult mouse than a large burm and a rabbit.

If you think that an adult mouse can do the same kind of damage as an adult rabbit...you are mistaken. One well placed kick from an adult rabbit can slash right through the scales and skin on a full grown burmese python. Do you have any direct experience feeding large boids? Or are you just going on "what you've read" on the internet? I'm not trying to come down on you, but the way you put things shows that you really aren't speaking from experience.

And I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject and at least 95% of breeders/keepers feed pre-killed for the same reasons stated above.

There you go with what you've been "reading" again. 95%? Where are you getting your data from?

In any event, many large scale breeders feed f/t because it is more economical than live food when dealing with a collection numbering in the thousands. In this case, it comes down to cost, not safety.

I guess it depends on whether you have a lot invested in your animals or if they're just a source of cheap thrills.

I agree that there are keepers out there that view their snakes as a source of personal entertainment and for the "shock" factor. Just go on youtube and see all the feeding videos.

As for myself, I have invested thousands and take great pride in my collection. They are all properly conditioned to take live food - many rodents barely even hit the floor of their tubs before the snake grabs them. I have yet to deal with a bite. A very good friend of mine breeds on a large scale (over 400 individuals) and he feeds live as well, and has been for over 10 years. That's 400 live feedings a week, 20,800 live feedings a year, and 208,000 live feedings over his career as a breeder. No rodent bites over there.

The people who usually deal with rodent bites are keeping their snakes improperly and have not taken the time to condition them to take live food. Otherwise, I assure you, live feeding can in fact be safe.

 

[Ophiuchus]

But F/T is still safer...unless you can come up with some compelling evidence that says otherwise.

Methinks you feel that I'm doing something wrong to witness so many rodent-related injuries.

Whenever I feed my snakes (or any others I'm in charge of caring for), I take each out and place them in an appropriately sized feeding container. I then place the live rodent in the container with said snake. In most cases that resulted in a rodent bite, the snake struck the rodent in its hindquarters, and even when beginning to constrict it, the rodent would start chewing at whatever was closest to its teeth (I guess as a last ditch defense attempt). Sometimes it wouldn't damage a scale; sometimes it could create a wound that required daily treatment for weeks.

I realize that the damage inflicted largely depends on the size of the prey item and good of a hold it was able to get on the snake. Personally, I never feed a prey item larger than the thickest part of the snake.

And your friend says out of the 208,000 feedings over his career, he's never had a rodent bite one of his animals? I remain skeptical, because to substantiate such a claim, he would have to witness every single feeding from the point of the rodent being introduced to the snake to the point of the rodent's death. I personally think you're just blowing smoke to rationalize your opinion, but who can say for sure either way?

 

[walls]

I re-read what I said and you guys misunderstood. I was just illustrating how different species have different needs. I did not mean to convey that you should feed you boa mouse fuzzies, that's rediculous. A corn snake on the other hand, would have no problem eating a ton of small prey items. I'm not saying that's what you absolutely should do, but it would work.



If you think that an adult mouse can do the same kind of damage as an adult rabbit...you are mistaken. One well placed kick from an adult rabbit can slash right through the scales and skin on a full grown burmese python. Do you have any direct experience feeding large boids? Or are you just going on "what you've read" on the internet? I'm not trying to come down on you, but the way you put things shows that you really aren't speaking from experience.

I have been keeping large boids for the last 20 years or so. The only one I keep now is an 11' female Boa due to having kids and no time. So yes I have plenty of "direct experiance" DO YOU? The way YOU put things YOU seem to be the one with little experiance..........of course how would I know that right??
And yes an adult MOUSE can do serious damage to a ball python. You are very misled if you believe otherwise.


There you go with what you've been "reading" again. 95%? Where are you getting your data from?

www.burmesepythonforums.net
www.redtailboa.net
www.boaphile.com
www.kingsnake.com
www.repticzone.com
Chicago Herp Society
YOU need to visit these places and post your arguement there. See what the general concensus is. Apparently YOU need to do some reading as well.


In any event, many large scale breeders feed f/t because it is more economical than live food when dealing with a collection numbering in the thousands. In this case, it comes down to cost, not safety.

Oh OK. Im glad you cleared that up. None of the breeders on any of the sites I mentioned are worried about the safety of thier collections.



I agree that there are keepers out there that view their snakes as a source of personal entertainment and for the "shock" factor. Just go on youtube and see all the feeding videos.

As for myself, I have invested thousands and take great pride in my collection. They are all properly conditioned to take live food - many rodents barely even hit the floor of their tubs before the snake grabs them. I have yet to deal with a bite. A very good friend of mine breeds on a large scale (over 400 individuals) and he feeds live as well, and has been for over 10 years. That's 400 live feedings a week, 20,800 live feedings a year, and 208,000 live feedings over his career as a breeder. No rodent bites over there.

The people who usually deal with rodent bites are keeping their snakes improperly and have not taken the time to condition them to take live food. Otherwise, I assure you, live feeding can in fact be safe.

I was not aware that a snake needed to be "conditioned" to take live prey.

Like I said YOUR pet YOUR decision. But dont mislead new keepers that there is not a chance of injury from live food. That would be irresponsible keeping IMHO.