My NEW "Super-Duper Red" EMPEROR STRAIN Firemouths

[Wailua Boy]

I did want to add to my earlier post and add invasive species as a another major impact going against these fish/species and may well be a leading factor.

 

[Cyberman]

How am I wrong?
Are you telling me that if Someone was to breed two fish of species X with a little more red on them to produce a few of their offspring that has a little more red on them and I'm sure the majority of the fry would look "normal" only a few would have more red.
Then say to the world this is the Explosive Fire back draft X strain. That's not marketing?
All your doing is breeding species X it's still X you just gave it a name so that people can recognize your species X and I bet the price will be twice as much the a normal X.
Granted there's a little more involved but that's the gist of it.

Simple answer there... Why bother... Coz there's a growing section within the hobby that wild or F1 or F2s are best. so people spend about £25 - £55 on one of these as apposed to £6 on a domestic specimen. That is marketing aswell isn't it? Dealer says I can get you wild Meeki I bet most of you would be prepared to shell out big bucks. Its like the Ivory trade.

 

[Cyberman]

Why on earth should anybody here feel ashamed about this complete strangers actions?

I was using it as an example... I wouldn't be surprised a lot of the stock you have has been acquired via cruelity and suffering... sure you wouldn't have got ur fish if you knew.

Please explain how you intend to do this.

selective breeding

 

[Cyberman]

I think he's aiming it at me and to the best of my knowledge I have no wild caught fish,just true forms.
I believe cyberpants here has F1 fish himself. I just think he gets a little excited and can loose the plot easily.)

My F1s i.e. Trimacs and Labs etc etc are present because there aren't any decent domestic variants available.

Loosing the plot is when you try and change the subject and get rude and personal....

 

[BIG-G]

Simple answer there... Why bother... Coz there's a growing section within the hobby that wild or F1 or F2s are best. so people spend about £25 - £55 on one of these as apposed to £6 on a domestic specimen. That is marketing aswell isn't it? Dealer says I can get you wild Meeki I bet most of you would be prepared to shell out big bucks. Its like the Ivory trade.

Your argument maybe valid as to buying wild over super duper for me. Because I would not fall for the marketing name game.
But not everyone would, some would want the super duper because it's, well ... super duper lol.

So even though you point has value it doesn't make mine wrong.
Surely you can see what I'm saying it's played out with the Trimac already.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Loosing the plot is when you try and change the subject and get rude and personal..

Something you have done a lot.

y F1s i.e. Trimacs and Labs etc etc are present because there aren't any decent domestic variants available

So you also promote collecting fish from the wild to get decent domestic variants.

I don't know where the assumption comes from that I lust for wild fish.
F0 fish is not something I have ever searched for.
I just like fish that are true to their original form.
Not fish altered by selective breeding.
Fish like that bright red firemouth you created is nothing like a true form.Thats what I object to.Changeing the appearance of a fish to suite your own tastes and dressing it up in the name of conservation. That's bullcrap.
A lot of fish collecting points around the world are being conserved because of the hobby.
To some people it's their only source of income and they are learning to protect their interests.
To be honest I don't know why all this, your cruel,you promote the catching of wild fish came from.
As I have said before I don't catch wild fish or keep them. I just like my fish to look like them unlike that ghastly Franky thing you created.
I think it's amusing you dress up your goals like your some kind of save the whale guru.Your just as cruel as the rest of us so cut the crap.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Thinking about it,I'm not the one that dropped an f1 stalsbergi in a 90 gallon and watched it rip apart a Trimac,salvini,red devil and a female stalsbergi.
I think your cruelty allegations should stop right there.

 

[J. H.]

There's electric Blue JDs, Electric blue Acaras, German Blue rams... the list is endless. I'd rather not have to many over keen hobbiests rading our natural rivers and ponds to feed a growing number of boastfull cichlid keepers

The biggest threat to most CA/sa cichlids does not come from the very small amount of fish imported into the hobby, it comes from pollution and evasive food fish. In fact if the locals or governments saw a financial gain to protect them they would.

A lot of fish collecting points around the world are being conserved because of the hobby.
To some people it's their only source of income and they are learning to protect their interests.

The people who live around many of the catch locations are not rich. They need the money. If they can't get it exporting fish, they just might get it ruining those very catch locations. In many parts of the world, ecotourism is seen as form of conservation, because although it does damage the habitats, it provides incentive for the locals to defend their wildlife. The fish trade is the same.

Thinking about it,I'm not the one that dropped an f1 stalsbergi in a 90 gallon and watched it rip apart a Trimac,salvini,red devil and a female stalsbergi.
I think your cruelty allegations should stop right there.

It may not be my place to say this, but I think the OP dropped his end of this fight. If not, you can drop your end first.

I am a believer in hybrids and line-bred fish. I have nothing against them as long as they are sold for what they are. I do not keep fish to recreate the biotopes in my house. I keep fish because I like them. As long as I am not harming anyone (Invasive species, threatened species, etc.), noone should tell me not to keep a fish I like and can care for. If I want to keep FHs or BPs (hybrid)or Side View Ranchus or Super Red Empress (line bred) or WC discus, it is my business. Don't keep 'em if you don't like 'em. Unfortunately, the fish trade seems to have a buyer beware attitude in general, but selling F2 as F0 is no more honest than selling midevils as true strain midas.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

It may not be my place to say this, but I think the OP dropped his end of this fight. If not, you can drop your end first.

He started it down this road with his boastfull cichlid keeper comments and his comments that we should be ashamed of ourselves.
All of us who keep fish are a part of the whole industry.The comments regarding collecting wild fish and cruelty is a result of the whole industry. So let's not pretend here. Everybody that keeps fish is keeping this situation alive and we are all as guilty as each other.
I have never said he can't line breed his fish.i just said it's not for me and I don't like line bred fish. The op can do as he wishes as far as I'm concerned.

Who made you referee anyway?

 

[Cyberman]

Something you have done a lot.

Where? God I feel like I'm talking to a child here!

So you also promote collecting fish from the wild to get decent domestic variants.

Only where there aren't such species readily available in the LFS...

I don't know where the assumption comes from that I lust for wild fish.

Well somewhere you've made the connection that I'm directly picking on you and now you're retaliating


F0 fish is not something I have ever searched for.
I just like fish that are true to their original form.
Not fish altered by selective breeding.
Fish like that bright red firemouth you created is nothing like a true form.Thats what I object to.Changeing the appearance of a fish to suite your own tastes and dressing it up in the name of conservation. That's bullcrap.
A lot of fish collecting points around the world are being conserved because of the hobby.
To some people it's their only source of income and they are learning to protect their interests.

That's not the same as the eco system being left alone... it's exploiting it to make money... it's the same argument being used by you Yanks to kill animals for game... cruel. clearly you're not the brightest card in the pack if you keep distorting everything I'm saying and not even attempting to understand what I'm trying to get across. I feel here I have to spell it out.


To be honest I don't know why all this, your cruel,you promote the catching of wild fish came from.
As I have said before I don't catch wild fish or keep them. I just like my fish to look like them unlike that ghastly Franky thing you created.
I think it's amusing you dress up your goals like your some kind of save the whale guru.Your just as cruel as the rest of us so cut the crap.

You've totally misunderstood what I've been saying. I've not directly accused you of anything yet you've turned it on me and that makes you look silly