Mysterious deaths to only one species

IronSnake

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 9, 2016
28
14
8
Elk Grove, California
I am stumped and so is Peter Athens. I had a group of cb satanoperca pappaterra ranging from 2" to 4" and all of a sudden they started to get what it looks like swim bladder issues. They always were swimming to fight against floating up. The day prior before they die, probably of exhaustion, their mouths will be open at all times. I have other wc geophagus species, altum angels, corydoras, and plecos, and cb gianacaras and congo tetras in with them, and only the papaterras are afflicted and dying with this issue. Sadly, I'm down to the last papaterra as the others started to die daily the span of a week.

Water is pristine as I do twice a week water changes. Temp is 78-79. I even fasted them for 3 days without any improvement. I also added 1ppt salt, which actually expedited their demise to my dismay.

I dissected one and everything that my amateur eyes could see was super healthy fish. No parasites or lesions, and the stomach was empty of contents as it died after the 3-day fasting.

Anyone has any ideas what it might be just in case it's something serious that might affect later the rest of the tank's inhabitants.

Thank you.
 

sikoko

Polypterus
MFK Member
Aug 15, 2009
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Can you please post your water parameters?
 
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IronSnake

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 9, 2016
28
14
8
Elk Grove, California
No plants in the tank except my algae turf scrubber in the sump. DT has only driftwood (malaysian, spider, and manzanita) and river boulders with pool filter sand. Water parameters are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5 nitrates, pH 7.6 (water from tap) - 7.2 (before water change after 3 or 4 days) pH, 78-79F temp. Using Seachem Safe, double the dose every WC. Filter sock change every 2 days, add some Seachem Safe before the sock goes in as well. No detergents used on the sock as I only power pressure wash them. Matrix carbon from BRS to get rid of the tannins. Lots of aeration as well to get rid of dead spots in a 300g 8ft long tank.

I was feeding daily, but now switched to every other day to fast the papaterras. I feed strictly flakes and sinking pellets (1mm -2mm) from NLS, Ken's, and NorthFin, and Hikari. No live, frozen, or freeze-dried to the tank ever.

What makes me think it's not the water quality as I have a couple pairs of G. mirabilis are already showing mating behavior and the altums are growing showing their markings and eating very well.

Edit: added what I feed and tank observations.
 
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Rocksor

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Nov 28, 2011
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Have you measured the oxygen level? Adding salt would lower the oxygen level in the tank, and could explain their deaths sometime after adding the salt. Not all species have the same oxygen level requirements.

What's the GH and TDS levels of the water these fish were bred in?
 
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duanes

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From the discussions I've seen about them, feeding is often difficult.
They are thought to be not as competitive as some fish, and sometimes don't get their share, in communities of eager eaters.
Because they are recent arrivals to the hobby, adhering to more natural conditions may be more important than for mainstay aquarium strains.
In nature the stomach contents has been found to be partial plant matter, and chiromimid larvae,. so small size bits with Spirulina may be important for digestion issues.
Their normal pH range is 5.5 to 7.5 so you should be alright, although it might be helpful; to keep some antibacterial tannins as opposed to getting rid of them, and consider seasonal changes using rain water to drop pH and mineral content, if your water has high conductivity.
PFS seems a perfect substrate.
One other thought, may be your normal stock may be immune to something, the pappatera are not equip to deal with, if wild, or if bred under conditions, like partial RO.
 
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IronSnake

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 9, 2016
28
14
8
Elk Grove, California
Have you measured the oxygen level? Adding salt would lower the oxygen level in the tank, and could explain their deaths sometime after adding the salt. Not all species have the same oxygen level requirements.
What's the GH and TDS levels of the water these fish were bred in?
They were bred by Peter Athens, and the rest of the stock is thriving with other customers. This is what made me worry about something that is going on in my tank that I haven't figured out after a couple weeks.

From the discussions I've seen about them, feeding is often difficult.
They are thought to be not as competitive as some fish, and sometimes don't get their share, in communities of eager eaters.
Because they are recent arrivals to the hobby, adhering to more natural conditions may be more important than for mainstay aquarium strains.
In nature the stomach contents has been found to be partial plant matter, and chiromimid larvae,. so small size bits with Spirulina may be important for digestion issues.
Their normal pH range is 5.5 to 7.5 so you should be alright, although it might be helpful; to keep some antibacterial tannins as opposed to getting rid of them, and consider seasonal changes using rain water to drop pH and mineral content, if your water has high conductivity.
PFS seems a perfect substrate.
One other thought, may be your normal stock may be immune to something, the pappatera are not equip to deal with, if wild, or if bred under conditions, like partial RO.
Interesting observation. For sure they are getting their share since I observed them with full bellies after feeding, which made me be concerned about overfeeding them and started the fast. I'm going to remove the carbon when I get home and do a water change to get rid of the salt. I also suspect something in my tap water as it's even not entirely healthy for humans to drink out of the tap with all the contaminants. Still doesn't explain why the more demanding altum angels are thriving--I did get those cb from Wes so they might be more resilient.
 

squint

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Oct 14, 2007
1,057
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CO
How big are the WCs percent-wise and are you dosing Safe for the replaced volume or the total tank volume?

You can always consult with UC Davis veterinary hospital if it becomes a true medical mystery.
 
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