mystery death??

[dean30bb]

hi all woke up on Saturday and my female ray was dead!! couldn't find why or how she could have died so im pretty angry at the moment. i tested the parameters ph was 6.5, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia were all at 0, went out and got a gh test kit and it was at 10. temp is at 26oC. so im not sure what has happened

the male is fine and is acting the same as he has been except hes not eating now, possibly because the female is gone, not sure... so now i have to try and get the male feeding so i don't loose him to starvation or something, dose anyone have some good advise??

thanks in advance
-dean

 

[jeffers]

first do a big water change. also you havent had these rays long at all. was the tank cycled? were they eating? is the bottom of their disc red? what tankmates? what filtration? or any other strange behaviors preceding this? with out knowing a few of these there is just too many possibilities.

 

[dean30bb]

first do a big water change. also you havent had these rays long at all. was the tank cycled? were they eating? is the bottom of their disc red? what tankmates? what filtration? or any other strange behaviors preceding this? with out knowing a few of these there is just too many possibilities.

did a 50% change straight after she died and a 30% again today...the tank was cycled for about 6months with 2 small Oscars in it and a small giant gourami, i did a 50% change about a week before i got the rays and i got the 3 fish out of it and in there new bigger tank, the bottom of the males disc is a tiny bit pink but not very...i have a 305 Fluvel and a 2217 Ehime, the only strange behavior in them both was that they would go to the top of the water and swim against the current and be out of the water abit but im not sure if that is normal or not?... the night before the female died she wasn't very active like she was the other few nights since ive had them but she looked fine still . and since the female died on saturday the male hasent eaten anything and he is looking very thin.

 

[Just Toby]

Sorry to hear your loss, I can understand your anger.

My guess is that this was a large Ammonia spike.

I may not have understood the thread fully but it sounds like the tank was cycled but maybe not based on the load the rays put on it.

If I have understood correctly you took the other fish out 1 week before the rays went in along with a large water change which meant not a lot of load directly prior to the new (Rays) massive load. This is only theory.

The filtration does not seem very large and I do not know the size of tank (smaller volumes will be affected more) also what media are in the filters and where do the outlets flow, I assume from the thread that there is a lot of rippling on the surface?

Were the Rays captive or wild caught?

If there was zero nitrate this seems odd as if the filters are running with a high load then I would expect to see Nitrate readings, it is very unusual to get a zero test for Nitrate. Also what Nitrate level is coming out of the tap?

Do not rely on dip strips for the testing at this point either, I got a close to zero reading for Nitrate the other day, tested it with an accurace Salifert one and it was close to 40 ppm!

Could you test the tank PH again along with the Tap Water for the water changes as I wonder if this is shifting around too.

 

[dean30bb]

Sorry to hear your loss, I can understand your anger.

My guess is that this was a large Ammonia spike.

I may not have understood the thread fully but it sounds like the tank was cycled but maybe not based on the load the rays put on it.

If I have understood correctly you took the other fish out 1 week before the rays went in along with a large water change which meant not a lot of load directly prior to the new (Rays) massive load. This is only theory.

The filtration does not seem very large and I do not know the size of tank (smaller volumes will be affected more) also what media are in the filters and where do the outlets flow, I assume from the thread that there is a lot of rippling on the surface?

Were the Rays captive or wild caught?

If there was zero nitrate this seems odd as if the filters are running with a high load then I would expect to see Nitrate readings, it is very unusual to get a zero test for Nitrate. Also what Nitrate level is coming out of the tap?

Do not rely on dip strips for the testing at this point either, I got a close to zero reading for Nitrate the other day, tested it with an accurace Salifert one and it was close to 40 ppm!

Could you test the tank PH again along with the Tap Water for the water changes as I wonder if this is shifting around too.

the tank is only a 4ftx1.5ft untill the 6x2 is made im using all API test kits and nitrate comes up as zero i also found it odd as all my other tanks are at 0.25 and its never been lower ?? the PH is at 6.0 now

 

[Just Toby]

Ok,

The tank is small in terms of volume to keep Rays in, to put it basically....one big wee / dump has a big affect on the water quality, therefore the Ammonia could rise to a very high level and then go back down before you have had time to even notice or measure it. The PH could have gone wild too.

The Nitrate I think is a key to show us that the filters may not be dealing with the bio load yet as there should be some being produced.

The fact that the PH is dropping is another sign.

We need to see what the tap PH is.

I would keep up the water changes.

If you can re-read my original response and try to answer all of the questions we should all be able to offer some more advice.

Hope all of this helps.

 

[dean30bb]

sorry mate didnt read it properly...

the tap water is at 6.8 and in the tank its 6.5, after the change

one canister has the inlet on the left and the outlet on the right and the other canister is the other way round.

there is a little bit of rippling on the surface but its not flowing crazy.

the media i have is just carbon, bio noodles, cerami sub and zeo its all aquaone media.

nitrate level in the tap is 0.25ppm and ive just checked the tank after doing another 50% change today and it is the same.

ammonia was at 0.25ppm before the change and its back to 0ppm again after the change.

 

[waymoz]

Is a possibility that lack of oxygen on the water was the cause?

For oxygen exchange i understand that there needs to be water surface agitation for oxygen to come in the water and carbon dioxide to leave the water. And something a long the lines of a lot of ammonia and low pH means you need higher oxygenation?

 

[Just Toby]

Is a possibility that lack of oxygen on the water was the cause?

For oxygen exchange i understand that there needs to be water surface agitation for oxygen to come in the water and carbon dioxide to leave the water. And something a long the lines of a lot of ammonia and low pH means you need higher oxygenation?

I agree, for now you could lower the level of the water to get a good agitation going or make the outlets really ripple the water.

BUT

I think the ammonia reading is the key as everything else looks good on the tap water etc...

If you are getting any ammonia then it is due to the filters not having matured enough to handle the loads and the water changes are diluting back to safe.

Keep testing the ammonia and as soon as you get those readings do water changes back to dilute...the filters will soon adapt.

As you are low on water volume and filtration I would do away with the carbon and add more bio media...it is hard to say if you should open it up now and do this, if you do then I would be careful not to leave the cannisters off long. Carbon is good at removing colours or medication and for polishing up the water but what you need right now is ammonia eating bacteria on bio media (dont use ammonia removing stuff)

You may want to look at Ammo lock but I fear this will slow down the filters maturing.

Keep up the water changes and try not to overfeed at the moment and keep checking.

When the nitrates start to increase you will know the filters are converting the ammonia through nitrite and in to Nitrate.

Also test daily for Nitirite as this may spike as the ammonia reduces.

 

[dean30bb]

thanks heeps for helping me out mate i really dont wanna loose this guy ill keep up the water changes and do every thing you have told me...

ill keep you updated

thanks again