I'll try to take a stab at this, typically when you have a overflow system into a sump you want the drain lines to not have a valve on them. Reason for this is that the amount of water that can be drained from the tank is limited to the height of the overflows. You would want the return lines back to the tank to have the shutoff valves on them so you can control the amount of water being returned to your tank, hence controlling the water level in the tank. Depending on how your water is returned to your tank, you might want to get some check valves on the return lines so the tank doesn't drain if the power goes out. Your drain lines (2) would run into the sump and you would have the (1) line from the pump back to the tank returns with the Y. Most likely he had the hose with the valve on it closer to the pump so you can do maintenance on the tank without having to drain the return line. So you would have all three shutoff valves coming from the pump to the tank, one close to the pump and then the other two underneath the tank. And if your returns in the tank are on the upper portion of the overflows you might be safe without the check valves on the returns, but this depends on how low in the tank they are and how big of a sump you have. It would have to accommodate the tank volume that would drain when the power is out.
need quick plumbing help again
- Thread starter Acura_RSX
- Start date
RedDwarf;3731064; said:
hmm, i get a good portion of what you said. not experienced witht he stuff so still a little confused.
to answer the other question first. the valves control the flow rate and/or shut it off i guess.
both the drain and return pvc in the tank goes to almosttt the very top of the tank. the returns come out over the overflow through a cutout type thing so they will fit tight under whatever lid i put on the tank. the drain is a little lower then that but still basically at the top.
the returns has a little slit in the in the corner piece (guessing its for the whole siphon break thing). and the drains come straight up then two elbow pieces to bring it back pointing downward .. they have a hole in either side of the first elbow along with a little tiny clear tube which sticks up through the top of that elbow .. i dunno what any of this means to be honest, but hope you guys understand what he had done with these.
Acura_RSX;3732594; said:
So.....your set up sounds like mine. My over flow and returns are at the top of the tank so if I turn off the pump for what ever reason (power out, maintenance) just a little water flows back into my sump. No over flow situation period. I have two drains going straight into the sump, no valves. Then I have 1 pump returning to a Y for two return lines to the top of the tank. I have an external pump so I have a valve between the pump and the sump. If I ever need to remove my pump I just close the valve. Mostly the valve is useless. Some reason you have valves? Most likely it's to throttle back your returns and not for maintenance. But I'm sure the valves are for the returns, not the drains.
Tip: Make your drain as large and simple as possible to maximize flow. The size of your drain is already determined but keep the plumbing simple, No bends very short amounts of pipe. I put my sump directly under my drain hole with a short pipe going directly above the pre-filer (cotton pad looking stuff) Ideally you never want to throttle back your pump. It cost the same to run your pump wide open or restricted. It a shame to have to pull it back a little just because your drain can't handle the capacity!
Good luck man!
Egon;3733290; said:
very helpful .. makes perfect sence .. his pump was external also, this could very well explain why one hose has a valve, that could be connecting the pump tot he sump. so your saying the big valves i have are actually for the returns not the drains? alright, i can make that happen instead. good that i learned it now instead of after i cemented it. only thing im wondering now is .. i have the y hose for the return .. a straight hose for one drain and thena hose he used for conecting the pump .. but if thats all right i dont get how to connect his second drain .. i will be cutting his hoses since they are way longer then i need so i could use that instead for the second drain hose. orr i could use the hose he used for connecting the pump for one of the drains.
what do you think?
Don't get bogged down on what hose goes where. Hoses are cheap. Put the sump where you want it. I would put it under one of the overflows depending on what side your pump is. Just make it fit. Then run your lines. Drain lines are the most critical, they need to move water efficiently, if it's a 1" drain then use 1" pipe/hose. Never go smaller than your bulkhead size. Keep your drain line as short as possible with as few bends as possible.
Returns: Try to keep the return lines the same length. That way the water runs the same distance from the pump to each corner of the tank. It would be nice if your pump was centered under the tank but necessary. Run a line from each corner-return-bulkhead to the center under the tank then connect that to the Y, from there run a single line to the pump. Connect the pump to the sump, if you want to add valves in line you can, but it's not important.
Returns: Try to keep the return lines the same length. That way the water runs the same distance from the pump to each corner of the tank. It would be nice if your pump was centered under the tank but necessary. Run a line from each corner-return-bulkhead to the center under the tank then connect that to the Y, from there run a single line to the pump. Connect the pump to the sump, if you want to add valves in line you can, but it's not important.
Egon;3733888; said:
yah well my tank is 72" and sump is 36" so if i place the sump directly against one side the submerisble pump will be nearly in the middle of the main tank so that works. and i believe he has 1" drains and 3/4" returns .. not postivie as im not good with pvc sizes etc. and i believe all the hose is 3/4" .. i hope thats not too inconvenient because the bulkhead etc is all still cemented from when he had it set up .. and the bulkhead takes those 1" pvc and puts them into i believe a 3/4" pvc on the other end of it .. then connects further to 3/4" hose
Going from 1" to 3/4" on the drain is a bad idea. I know it's not your idea but now is the time to fix it. I bet that's why he had all the valves? He needed to throttle back the pump because the drain would not handle the capacity. All because of the unnecessary reduction of the drain.
Easiest thing you can do is put a 1" barb fitting on the bottom of your bulkhead and clamp on a 1" hose and run that to your sump. Save all that 3/4 hose for your return
PVC is nice (very cheap) but sometimes just paying a few extra $$ you can go with hose barbs and hoses to make all your connections. Honestly it's not that much more.
Easiest thing you can do is put a 1" barb fitting on the bottom of your bulkhead and clamp on a 1" hose and run that to your sump. Save all that 3/4 hose for your return
PVC is nice (very cheap) but sometimes just paying a few extra $$ you can go with hose barbs and hoses to make all your connections. Honestly it's not that much more.
Egon;3734296; said:
well the bulkheads etc were already still cemented and the bottom of the bulkhead already has small piece of i believe 3/4" pvc cemented in. (as drawn somewhat in picture) so to change anything in the set-up like that would involve buying all new stuff i think. dunno if theres another way to fix it.
