new agression with yellow labs w/ pics

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thanks for the info. there will be around 10 -12 demasonis. And I will be getting 2 more (vented and checked) female labs.

I am also looking for a home for my non blue electric blue...

Also, my MIL is going to our river camp this weekend and she will be looking for some river rock for my tank. Then first week May, we are going to go to the camp and look for some more rock.

If I get rid of the pleco how will I control Algae? Granted I dont see any in my tank, my tank does NOT have direct sunlight, and it sits in a fairly dark room. (no windows in my living room) However in the late afternoon, the room does get some indirect light.

I am considering trying to trade the pleco for some feed or water treatment stuff. AS I no longer feel comfortable with getting my fish from the guy who told me a bunch of lies to get a sale.
 
CuppieCake;3020365; said:
If I get rid of the pleco how will I control Algae? Granted I dont see any in my tank, my tank does NOT have direct sunlight, and it sits in a fairly dark room. (no windows in my living room) However in the late afternoon, the room does get some indirect light.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but try cleaning the tank yourself!:D

African Cichlids eat algae anyway, and with my 55 gallon all I ever have to do for Algae control is wipe down the glass with a sponge every other water change, and I never have a dirty tank.

Hope this helps.
 
JonV;3020931; said:
Agreed and good points here except for one thing. Many of the species of Madagascar are substrate spawners. I just wanted to point that out as not all Africans mouthbrood, but the vast majority do.

Good point.
 
Cuppie, if I may suggest something here?

I agree with the post that you should just vent them to sex them. They are basically monomorphic in that the colors, fins and sizes are basically the same in both male and female. There have been sometimes where you see more black on a male, but females have been known to do this as well. If you vent them, that's as accurate as you can get, and you should do this yourself.

Your LFS screwed the pooch on this too. There is NO way that any legit LFS should ever, and I mean ever say that a FH is compatible with any Mbuna or African for that matter. A FH is NO community fish by any means. It will grow at least 3-4 times larger then any Mbuna you have, it's temperment is extremely nasty and it's just a matter of time before that fish will wipe them out. I'd get that fish it's own tank. That's not even taking into account that the water chemistry of that hybrid is not compatible with Rift lake Africans. I'm not trying to be mean, but your LFS really ticked me off telling you that. I would not buy from them ever again. Clearly, they do not know their head from their butt.

What you are seeing in terms of what the sold to you as male/female pair, it's hard to say. It would appear to be male female however, you could well have a sub dominant male that's just looking for cover against a dominant male, which I think the dominant one would clearly be the one cruising around nipping everyone. But keep this in mind. The male will be looking for an area to spawn in and will ward off most anything that comes into that area. He will be on the look out for the female and try to lure her in. You should know if you have a female by watching the dominant one. If he rapidly shakes his tail/anal fin near the other lab, that's an enticement to spawn.

Pleco's are not true algae eaters either. They are an armored catfish and bottom feeder. You might find more luck on algae issues two fold. One is try something like an Oto or Siamese/Chinese Algae eater, only you need to watch out on the CAE because they tend to be overly aggressive when older. The other way, which I think is the best way is to control what causes algae.

Light
O2/CO2 levels
Phosphates
Nitrogen compounds

Light should be run a normal light cycle, about 8-10 hours a day
Excess O2 levels will support algae, if you are running an air stone as well as have an HOB filter, you should probably cut out the air stone

Phosphates are not easy to know if this is a problem or not without testing the levels, but should you find abundant phosphates, I'd employ a phosphate removing resin in your filter, or use a product I've used in the past, Algone.

You will want to keep an eye on your nitrate levels. I know many keepers that feel 20 ppm on the nitrates is when you should change, but I have yet to see any scientific evidence this is a threshold before problems occur. I have seen and I go by the 40 ppm levels myself. Keeping nitrates down, should help against the algae.

As for adding Demasoni, at this point in time, until you fix up that FH issue, and work on the algae, and as well figure the genders of what you have, I would not go adding new fish, especially something like a Demasoni. This species as well is a very assertive highly aggressive Mbuna, more so then the other stock you have. While adding in a group at those numbers is good, I am NO fan of this over stocking to reduce aggression. I think you'd get better results using and group similar temperment species in the proper ratios. As one other post mentioned, when it comes to most Africans, these do well in harems. Pairs, outside of substrate spawning types, don't usually work well unless you have a VERY large tank. It might be in your best interest, instead of Demasoni, pursue getting about 3-4 more known female labs.

BigMamma1422;3017129; said:
I think the issue is that she's nesting...she may already be pregnant...When you clean the tank do you leave the driftwood in the same spot everytime? My shark got possesive of the cave I put in until I started moving it around each time I cleaned the tank. My females act funny just before they 'pop'. Hope it helps..good luck.


This species is a mouthbrooder, you will not see them become impregnated. You can look for these signs she's holding a brood, if it's a she and they spawn. They will not eat food. When you put food in, watch close. She'll pass near the food, but not actually open her mouth and take it in. You'll find a holding female often times isolates herself off the group and keeps to herself. The gills could appear to be flared out when looking at her from behind. A pouch or pocket may appear to form in her lower mouth/jaw area.

Keep in mind, first time spawns of mouthbrooders often fail as a female needs to learn what to do. Don't get down if a spawn fails the first couple times. They will try again at some point. First time spawns, you often can't see the pouch or the gills flared out until they get a rather large brood in there, about 20 plus.

BarroomHero;3017214; said:
African cichlids hold eggs in their mouths. Labs are very difficult to sex by the way, you may have 2 males, 2 females, or a male and a female.

African cichlids are territorial and aggressive, you could try adding my decor/hiding places, a lot of people also "overstock" african cichlids tanks to some degree to try and reduce aggression.


Agreed and good points here except for one thing. Many of the species of Madagascar are substrate spawners. I just wanted to point that out as not all Africans mouthbrood, but the vast majority do.
 
I will be moving the flowerhorn the same day as the demasoni. Which will be this weekend. There will be about 10 of them. I will also be adding 1 more for sure female from same tank as the demasoni. He will check the other and if it is a female I will be adding her as well. I am also looking into removing the Electric blue, by finding him a new home.

I dont have an algae issue in my tank. The pleco has been around for 2 years. as has the catfish and yoyo loach. They started in a 10g guppy, tetra tank.

Thank you all for the wonderful insight. I had no idea 4 months ago when I got this tank how much was going to be involved.


Wanted to ask another question. The LFS guy said that fish will only grow to a certain size within the tank limits. Just wondering if he was using that as the sales pitch toward the larger tanks.
 
yes sirrrrrrr!! that's yellow lab for you, they love tormenting outer fish,specially if they are not a.cichlid's,,, i will never mix my African's with any-other spices...
 
CuppieCake;3021120; said:
I will be moving the flowerhorn the same day as the demasoni. Which will be this weekend. There will be about 10 of them. I will also be adding 1 more for sure female from same tank as the demasoni. He will check the other and if it is a female I will be adding her as well. I am also looking into removing the Electric blue, by finding him a new home.

I dont have an algae issue in my tank. The pleco has been around for 2 years. as has the catfish and yoyo loach. They started in a 10g guppy, tetra tank.

Thank you all for the wonderful insight. I had no idea 4 months ago when I got this tank how much was going to be involved.


Wanted to ask another question. The LFS guy said that fish will only grow to a certain size within the tank limits. Just wondering if he was using that as the sales pitch toward the larger tanks.

Fish do not grow to the size of the tank, that is completely false. Although fish will become stunted if they are kept in a tank that is too small, they will possibly become deformed, suffer from internal organ damage, or die.
 
Baroom said it exactly, and again this just shows even more why you should just not even do business with this person anymore. They got the money so far from you, do NOT give them anymore. They are practicing totally irresponsible business.

Just as they said, what is going to happen, like say you take that tiny 3 inch Oscar which can physically fit in a 10 gallon tank, it's growth rates are very rapid when young. Pheremones and certain bio chemical compounds, which I don't know exactly what they are, are released from a fish. This is why this aspect is important to consider.

In a natural setting, you have so much dilution of these bio compounds, the body of the fish never dectects them, as well as you have totally natural replenishment of water minerals and such. In a tank, it's a closed loop enviroment in which only you provide the much needed fresh water. It cannot be refreshed otherwise.

Now you tank that tank too small for a species, even if you were doing water changes every day, there's still going to be a point at which a fish will stop growing due to physical limitations of the space, BUT if the fish is not at what it's genetics dictate it should grow to, external growth stops, but the organs continue to grow and try to develop and this is the process of stunting.

TECHNICALLY, yes then from a very limited point of a view, a fish will grow to it's enviroment, but at the same time, a case like an Oscar in a 10 gallon tank will result in premature death due to stunting. It's a misleading point your LFS is making, totally irresponisble to tell a buyer that in order to make a sale. I wish something like this would be against the law and I'd love to see this person prosecuted for spreading bs like this in the hobby.
 
that bottom feeder you have is a YoYo loach. I use to have one, which is not recomended since they like to be in trios or more. I had to get rid of him because he would occasionally attack my angelfish and I wanted to turn my tank into a CA/SA tank only.

I like your labs im planning on setting up a 75 gal African mbuna cichlid tank myself, Im also looking into the pseudotropheus demansoni as well as labs I was also thinking auratus but Ive heard they will likely kill off most other fish.
 
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