New cichlid help and info please.....

[yellowoman]

the only time matching ph to the lake they came from is if they are f0 wild caught.
fish from LFS are most of the time tank raised.
if you have F0 fish and wrong ph there color and their habits will change alot from the first few days you got them.

 

[SinisterKisses]

Hmm...quite the debate. Its actually a little from both arguements though. True, most fish raised in tanks, don't have perfectly monitered pH levels and such in petstores, and they therefore learn to tolerate a wider pH range. African mbuna generally prefer a pH level ranging from about 7.6 to 8.5 or so. Now, they can survive in a tank with a lower pH, but to an extent. A fish that should have a pH level of 8.5, simply will not do as well in a tank with a pH of 5.5, that's all there is to it. A fish that should be in very hard water, will not thrive the way it should in very soft water. The point is, you don't have to be as completely anal with your water levels (all around) as to be dead on, but you should moniter them and aim for a few degrees of what's recommended. With mbuna, an easy way to do this, is to put crushed coral into the filter (canister filter works best). It raises the pH to a higher level like it should be, hardens the water like it should be, and once its in, you can basically just leave it - you don't have to moniter it every week and add more. It keeps working as it slowly dissolves in the water, making it last a very long time. Your fish will be happier for it.


And please don't feed your mbuna high meat-protein foods like earthworms and shrimp. pH is something they can adjust to, but an animal that is a herbivore will always be that way. If you want the best for your fish, and for them to be happy and healthy, feed them algae flakes and wafers, veggies and such, or even your basic 'cichlid flakes' or pellets are better than meaty, protein rich foods.

 

[piranha45]

Myself and many others have had no problems with feeding mbuna high-protein diets; indeed my mbuna occasionally indulge in ghost shrimp and danios on top of the 45% protein pellets they are served, and their growth, percievable health, and coloration is excellent.


The only cichlids i would not feed high-protein foods to are Tanganyikan Tropheus, as these fish WILL die of intestinal problems if fed such material.

 

[spryandspringy]

I'm on the proverbial fence. Before I knew any better, I was feeding a basic cichlid pellet (both protein and vegetable) and bloodworms to my mbuna. I never had any issues with them, they were in perfect health, grew quickly, and had great color. Then again, I must admit that now that I have more information, I feed spirulina and frozen, vegetable-based cichlid foods to my mbuna, and am seeing the same results. Doesn't seem to matter, but then again why take chances? Actually, I can answer that last, somewhat rhetorical question: If I had a mixed tank with both carnivorous and vegetarian species, I wouldn't sweat feeding meaty foods and "risking" the mbuna getting a taste. In an mbuna-only set-up, I'd stick with a vegetarian diet.

 

[TankGurl]

The only african cichlid species that require a monitored diet, to my knowledge and experience, are Tanganyikan Tropheus species.

I agree with this as well. I have a mixed Malawi tank and feed them NLS as well as cucumber, peas and brine shrimp and other protein based foods. I've had no problems at all with one exception when some newly shipped Red Rubies died due to the switch in their diet from the importer to me. (and that was my fault since I didn't ask what they were on previously)

Tropheus on the other hand will develop bloat if exposed to high protein content food. I have one tropheus in my Tang tank and it's doing very well on NLS. I target feed the other carnivores in the tank with krill or brine shrimp, so their dietary needs are not neglected. So far, so good. (ie. fish are breeding, growth rate is astounding)

Kelly

 

[piranha45]

I fed a certain duboisi in a mixed cichlid tank 40% Hikari Gold and 45% Kensfish pellets for about a year, before one day he went from perfectly fine to dead, due to bloated stomach. The high-protein stuff may run through them fine for quite a while, but one odd day it will kill them....

 

[TankGurl]

the only time matching ph to the lake they came from is if they are f0 wild caught.
fish from LFS are most of the time tank raised.
if you have F0 fish and wrong ph there color and their habits will change alot from the first few days you got them.

I've heard many reports confirming this which is why I started my WC in complimentary water conditions.

I add a Rift Lake buffer to both my tanks, keeping PH at 8.4 and GH/KH quite high. (The ph of my tap water is anywhere from 5.5 to 6.5.) I also have limestone and coral sand as a buffer in both tanks.

Both of my tanks thrive. I've never had an outbreak of ick, bloat or any other nasties in 3 yrs. I get multiple breedings and have noticed that nipped tails or fins heal within 24 hrs, due to the salt addition.

Other species I add that have been living in low PH are exposed to my high PH via a drip I setup. I usually run the drip for 2 hrs or so.

Mileage may vary with others, but it works wonderfully for my tanks.


Kelly

 

[The TRUST]

A good way to save money on fish supplies is to do away with the buffers and pH mix. Just use Baking Soda and Epsom salt.

My friends and I used these on our Tanganyikans and Malawis before and they were fine and thriving. Even breeding.

 

[Miles]

Uhhh. Wow. Interesting debate.

I 100% completely agree with everything P45 has said.

Don't screw with water paramaters unless your spawning, or have completely out of range water for what you are keeping.

I do agree that you should buffer your water, to keep your pH from falling. Crushed Coral usually solved the problems, but be careful. Sometimes certain crushed corals can have 'orthophosphates' binded to them, in which they release a high amount of phosphates in your water. With the right combination of tap water, orthophosphates, and lighting, you could have some VERY serious green water algae problems. A customer of mine had this issue, and now she is forced to either use water from her brothers house down the road, or a constant supply of Phos-X.

Consistancy is key. Too many people 'screw' with water paramaters, which creates a rollercoaster effect with each water change. The fish hate this way more then the uncomfort of being in a pH range that is slightly out of the 'ideal' paramaters, found in the wild.

Too many people fuss with RO Units, Buffers, yada yada yada.. When the key is adapt your fish to your water source, so you can make large frequent water changes. The fish are WAY more stressed from lack of proper water quality, than they are if the 'ideal water parameters' are somewhat out of range.

Obviously, African Cichlids shouldn't be kept in a low pH by any means. However, most soft-water fish can adapt to high pH, without too much trouble. Some are MUCH more sensative than others, such as Wild Discus and Wild Apistogrammas. I often import wild Stingrays, Cichlids, and Tetras directly into a pH of 7.6-7.8, with no problems.. However, Discus and Apistos, as well as a few other fish are a different story.

It's interesting to know that my PetSmart has a main system with shared water quality.. Everything from Killies and Tetras, to Mbunas and Aulonacaras are kept on the same water source. How come they thrive in such an 'un-optimal' environment? Because PetSmarts system has an automatic water change system which never allows the Nitrates to climb above 20ppm, and the water quality is CONSISTANT. I spawned many fish in PetSmarts tanks while I was working for them, and unfortunetly I got in trouble for intentionally breeding the fish. I spawned Convicts and Firemouths, in the same water that I spawned Red Zebras and Kenyi's. Wowie, If I would of tooken KUTTY's info, that would be impossible. Because fish that are 'just surviving', usually don't breed.. The breeding is usually done by fish that are 'thriving..' Right?

So Kutty, you tell me.. How can I import wild fish directly into a pH of 7.8, and have no issues? Especially with a fish as sensative as a Stingray? Also, if you were so 'absolutely correct' about the advice you give, you would know that not ALL African Rift Cichlids MUST have a pH of exactly 8.5. It was my understanding that only the lake tanganyika cichlids enjoyed a super high pH from 8.2-8.8? While most of the Victorian and Malawi water parameters range from 7.6-8.2, and 7.8-8.4? I guess I could be a know-it-all and jump down your throat for posting bad information.. But then again we are just hear to gather the opinions of others to make our own, not to get scientific evidence from any schmuck who has the ability to type.



Miles

 

[Miles]

About the Dietery issues.. Wow! They sell foods designed for African Cichlids! Good deal