Actually While i was at work for two weeks, these two developed bloat on my wife and she couldnt save them that was like a couple months ago. she said they looked fine one day then the male died the next day followed by the female day after. so i really dont know what happened since i wasnt home to see for myself. I have done some reading and will treat any new odo's with clout.. prolly right out the gate. it worked for me in the past so ill use that next time. but im gonna hold off on odo's for a bit since my tanks are full of pairing projects.