New thread...p14 is very swollen????? Video-

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
keepinfish said:
ive never paid much attention to ph and hardness, cause it is hard to change and keep constant. Plus i have heard so many times "rays can adapt"
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That's cause we as ray keepers "adapt" to hearing what we WANT to hear and ignore things we know to be incorrect or unknown cause it's easier then learning and understanding the correct way. Haven't figured out yet how this mindset fits into the KISS method, but I have a feeling I NEVER will..... LOL ;)
 
DB junkie said:
I hate David's posts, yet love them.

Not sure how everyone else's reality tastes but mine tastes bitter.

I knew there was a reason I wasn't keeping fancy rays yet. Cause I don't know how to keep the ones I have.

Back to the drawing board. Yet AGAIN. :(
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THAT is what is bothering me... some rays are fine in hard water, and some of the same species are not???? Dont make a lot of sense.
 
keepinfish said:
THAT is what is bothering me... some rays are fine in hard water, and some of the same species are not???? Dont make a lot of sense.
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True..... Some are "Spartans" while some are just plain ol rays. But, I bet that the rays that appear "fine" in hard water are even finer in correct water.

I spent the last 3 years trying to improve the things in my system that I feel aren't up to par but in reality I'm looking for a problem IN the real problem.

Seems most of us in the 8s seem to have more problems and less pups then those in the 7s and below.

Just cause Flex Fuel cars will work on E85 doesn't mean they will perform the same as they do on regular gas. It will still "work" without issues, but there is a compromise.
 
RO sucks and it's a huge pain in the butt... That said, it's often necessary...but I always say LAST RESORT.

Start with a KDF-85 filter to get out all the metals and chlorine and CHLORAMINE...city water is toxic most of the time...and this filter will take all the nasties out of well water too...it will not "soften" water...but it will lower PPM a bit by taking out the worst things... I found this link fpr the filter and for fish room use only...at 200g per week...this filter lasts 1 year... Also...if RO becomes necessary...this would be a great pre-filter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-whole-h...571?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adeadc833

After that filter...I would look at various types of cartridges..and I'd consider adding a water softener if I had to. City water is often very hard...but it is so often assumed that it is soft.

The reaosn I hate RO water is mainly because 90% goes to waste...so that 100gpd drip turns into 700-1000g per day of water that is used...gets expensive...and then there is nothing in the water...so there has to be buffers and some minerals mixed back in..and it has to be the same every time...

I'd be more inclined to make a big giant filter cartridge full of peat if it would work...

E.C. is a great masurement...just like PH...you learn the EC of your tap water...and the use that to tailor what you need to do to it. Then once the water is in the system, you can compare the source water readings to stay up on water changes...evaporation...fish poop...ammonia...all that stuff increases E.C....

I added salty recently and lost my E.C. reading...so that I still need to figure out...but my source water is 0.8 E.C. Water changes keep system at about 1.2 E.C....but when I added salt the E.C. went to 4.4 so now I have to go back to testing the water for nitrites and such instead of just keeping E.C. constant. Does that make sense?

Mike
 
Keepin- Do you want us to start a new thread in regards to water so we aren't taking this thread off the main focus? I know I kinda did, I apologize.
 
We're right back to needing to find a means to remove some of the EC or TDS from the water, just not as much as RO does......

Maybe it's time to turn to the reefers and see IF they have anything of this nature...... OR

We cut with RO and figure out how to prolong WCs through the use of plants.

Maybe it's time to give up on keeping rays and start keeping unicorns. At this point it sounds like that might be less stressfull.

It's too bad we aren't setup more like reefers in terms of being able to SEE everyone's water quality numbers...... Would love to know what the guys across seas who are mass producing rays have for water..... Do they all run what they have or do they modify the water to mimic the amazon?
 
most of the Asian countries also have soft water, hence their success with rays and discus etc.
Using R/O is easy once you get the rhythm of it. It just adds a step to your water changes.
replacing the minerals is easy, you just add back more fresh tap until you are at the desired level.This is where the meters come in handy. Of course you do this in a separate container before you add this mix to the tank.
Many R/O Membranes can be swapped out for less efficient ones that produce more r/o and less waste water.
A simple alternative is a deionizer cartridge system, no waste water at all, but the cartridges get spendy, unless you then take it further and learn how to recharge the crystals in the cartridges.
The cheapest method is to divert the gutters from the roof of your house and collect rainwater. Each time it rains your will get thousands of gallons for free.
 
As far as hardness and ph go...I never really paid much attention. I'm sure using "perfect" water would be ideal. If you have the time and resources, do it.

At one time, I had well water. Never checked ph or hardness of the water. What I do know, is that the tub, toilet, and sinks were bright orange from iron...so I imagine it was a little hard. Lived there about four months. Had two WC Reticulata pups (which are known for being very sensitive) they did great. Can't say a whole lot about long term effects. Moved to town, had the pups four more months...didn't quarentine a WC Flower, lost all three.
 
The problem is since we see them grow we think they are OK.

Everyone sits here preaching about how well thier rays are doing in thier hard water, but in reality what is doing great? If they're great they should be breeding like rabbits with large healthy litters.

Some are perfectly happy if thier rays continue to eat and breath everyday. Some want more then that. Some want to KNOW that they are spot on water wise. To those who are happy with getting by the hard water may be fine. To those with higher standards water chemistry needs to be addressed. It needs to be addressed to either prove or disprove to the rest of us exactly how much it matters.

I'm not sold on trusting rainwater here, but open to the idea.

First step is definetly to get some equipment and start comparing numbers.

WE ALL should be checking this stuff out and comparing..... Maybe we can prove something just by sharing notes.
 
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