New uromastyx, need an exact ID

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crayfishguy said:
I actually just spent a half an hour typing, before realizing I should just post a link. This is the best resource as far as Uromastyx care is concerned, other than talking to keepers and breeders directly. (I'm happy to help further if you have any questions). This is a site I have helped out with:
http://urowiki.weebly.com/
Some additional comments:
Please remember to get a fecal done with a qualified reptile vet if you haven't already. Imports often come in with very high parasite loads.
Uromastyx are very stress prone animals. I do not handle any of my uros unless they voluntarily seek it out (usually at the prospect of food.) Rewarding your animal with food when it is bold enough to come close is a great way to build trust, grabbing them or restraining them will simply convince them you are a predator.
While your animal is not in perfect health, I recommend non particulate substrate, such as tile or paper towel. Impaction will not occur with a healthy animal, but it is a concern when dehydrated. To combat this, offer unflavored pedialyte to your uro. It is great for getting them re hydrated.
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you'd probably be better off handling them to get them used to it, they stop stressing after some handling. Better they stress and get it over with, rather than stress their entire life from not being handled.

Had a female Frilled Dragon that was skittish as hell when I got her and I gave her a cage 10x bigger and handled her for a few minutes a day, She was eating out of my hand in no time, as opposed to freaking out everytime I reached in to clean or change water.

Ultimately this decision was made after I talked it over with a handful of other professionals weighing the pros and cons of handling/stress vs. no-handling/stress and we all agreed it was better to get them used to you
 
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Frank Castle said:
you'd probably be better off handling them to get them used to it, they stop stressing after some handling. Better they stress and get it over with, rather than stress their entire life from not being handed.
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If you force handling on these animals they will simply lose any trust you've thus far gained, unless they are simply too cold to protest. Uromastyx are display animals, brief handling on their terms is all I would suggest. They do not stop getting stressed by handling, the best you can hope for is gaining enough trust for them to come to you in a stress free way. I've gone through this with numerous species, most of which I still keep tabs on. If you let them come to you, you will have a happier, healthier uro.
 
crayfishguy said:
If you force handling on these animals they will simply lose any trust you've thus far gained, unless they are simply too cold to protest. Uromastyx are display animals, brief handling on their terms is all I would suggest. They do not stop getting stressed by handling, the best you can hope for is gaining enough trust for them to come to you in a stress free way. I've gone through this with numerous species, most of which I still keep tabs on. If you let them come to you, you will have a happier, healthier uro.
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How do you know this?
 
Frank Castle said:
no, that's an "opinion"

My question was how do you KNOW this?

Mind you, I have been doing the reptile-thing for over 30 years. Dazzle me w/ facts and science, not "because I said so" or stuff like that
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My experience with multiple species from various backgrounds in this genus is all I have to offer. If you have something more substantial, please, share.
 
crayfishguy said:
My experience with multiple species from various backgrounds in this genus is all I have to offer. If you have something more substantial, please, share.
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I would just suggest maybe stating it as "In my experience" or "In my opinion", I don't think it should be worded as "fact" which is how I read it.

I myself and various others in the trade I have worked with or have had discussions on Uromastyx do find they tend to calm down quite a bit after handling as long as they are not startled and freaked out. A bit of restraint (but gentle) is mandatory for responsibly handling any reptiles, but giving them time to acclimate (it could take months, unlike fish) is a good idea.

I remember when Frilleds became "popular" the same was said about them being high stress and just for looking at, but that was abandoned quite some time ago when people started realizing a small short period of stress while they get used to you ultimately leads to a longer healthier life which actually seems to render them LESS stressed in the long run.

While there ARE some lizards I would certainly agree should not be handled, such as Tokay Geckoes, Uroplatus, Phelsuma etc, after seeing vendors with very healthy Uromastyx at Reptile expos, holding them, eating out of their hands in front of thousands of people, sitting on the tables not even in a cage and not running away, and other things like that - you must understand if I disagree.

I know many many people with very healthy Uromastyx that are handled regularly, juveniles and proven breeders alike.

Aside from them being practically 100% herbivorous, similar care to Bearded Dragons seems to be the norm at this point
 
Have you worked with Uromastyx? I see a lot of he said, she said, but no mention of personal experience. I know plenty of Uromastyx keepers and breeders, as was necessary to locate my individuals. I have also kept several species, and bred Uromastyx dispar ssp. Almost no breeders handle their animals more than is necessary, and plenty have perfectly docile animals. My animals trust me, and will not hesitate to climb on me in search of food. To suggest I am in some way subjecting them to more stress than I would if I initially forced them to stay in my hands, is absurd. Uromastyx are prey animals. They do not tolerate restraint, as is easily evident by the puncture wounds you'll have in your hand if you try. I certainly believe that allowing your animals to interact with you can decrease stress. But they don't learn that you aren't a predator by being subjected to a stressful situation. Offering positive rewards for interaction (food) is a much less stressful way to introduce them to the idea of handling, and in my opinion, is much more rewarding for the keeper as well.
For what it's worth, a number of the species you listed can become quite accustomed to people in this way. I know a decent number of incredibly tame tokays. They're imported, scared animals. Of course they're going to react negatively to being grabbed. Phelsuma quite readily interact with their keepers when regularly handfed.
 
crayfishguy said:
Have you worked with Uromastyx? I see a lot of he said, she said, but no mention of personal experience. I know plenty of Uromastyx keepers and breeders, as was necessary to locate my individuals. I have also kept several species, and bred Uromastyx dispar ssp. Almost no breeders handle their animals more than is necessary, and plenty have perfectly docile animals. My animals trust me, and will not hesitate to climb on me in search of food. To suggest I am in some way subjecting them to more stress than I would if I initially forced them to stay in my hands, is absurd. Uromastyx are prey animals. They do not tolerate restraint, as is easily evident by the puncture wounds you'll have in your hand if you try. I certainly believe that allowing your animals to interact with you can decrease stress. But they don't learn that you aren't a predator by being subjected to a stressful situation. Offering positive rewards for interaction (food) is a much less stressful way to introduce them to the idea of handling, and in my opinion, is much more rewarding for the keeper as well.
For what it's worth, a number of the species you listed can become quite accustomed to people in this way. I know a decent number of incredibly tame tokays. They're imported, scared animals. Of course they're going to react negatively to being grabbed. Phelsuma quite readily interact with their keepers when regularly handfed.
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The lizards I mentioned shouldn't be handled because of their sensitive skin, it has nothing to do with taming them down.

All i'm saying is that responsible handling involves some type of gentle but secure grip to prevent them from jumping out of your hands and breaking themselves on the ground. If you don't like the idea, handle them while sitting on a couch or chair that will "catch" them if they fall. There is a textbook hand-set that is standard for handling lizards, and it applies to all but the largest lizards that need to be restrained to work with. If getting a few tiny little holes in your hand is the problem, wear gloves but that type of stuff never bothered me. I would be more worried about causing injury to the animal from losing a secure grip as a result of not being able to handle a little hole in my hand. It's just a Uro, dude....you're not gonna like DIE from getting a claw stuck in you
 
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