New wild axanthic??? Silver arowana from wes rare fish

[KELVINFONG]

Check out this vid are these xanthic? [video=youtube_share;Bk2neulEq-4]http://youtu.be/Bk2neulEq-4[/video]

Actually,those in the vid are albino, so what you saw as xanthic were just albino.

I saw a group of arowanA with translucent scales and no Red eyes.. I define that as a axanthic.. Of course I cannot deny it could being born from albino parents.. They share so much similarities. These were what I saw. Translucent scales Arowanas.. Just like the panda Rtg.. Which translucent scales...
They are not albino bro...

Not this guy again.....yep your right....easily breed and Very common fish.....I wish I would have listened before I bought it......hahahahahahahahaha

Albino variiant short body silver.... That's a lot of big words from a person who can't tell the difference between a black and silver arowana, the only important fact that's on your side bro! Why don't you quit while you're still ahead...

I don't know why you continue to post here? You made your opinion apparently clear and have offered no facts despite continually posting that you've seen them often and that they're commonly available. Fact: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>. So far you provided one pic that was so horrendous it almost looks to be a illustration on piece old paper and your statements over and over again that you've seen xanthics more then leucistics,snows and albinos. Facts would consist of actual documented numbers of how many captive bred animals there are of each or at very least and this would be reaching for it to be called a fact, producing more pictured examples of the xanthic over the other three. A quick search of the net and you'll find that the other three(leu,alb,snow) are far more photographed then anything claimed to be xanthic. This suggests that you're assertions are actually incorrect never mind that you have labeled your statements with no evidence as fact.

Now addressing genetics lets start with the "snow". Just so you know what a snow actually is it is an animal who is is a double homozygous. It is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. That being said a true snow is more likely to be one of the rarer if not rarest color morphs. Leucism on the other hand is the reduction of all pigment in an animal. That being said visually the two could look identical with the only way to tell the difference is if the animal had some expression of black in it's normal coloration. Seeing as Aro's don't the only other ways to tell would be to know the genetics of the parents or have the fish tested. With that said I'd be more then skeptical of someone claiming to have a snow who didn't have documentation and would definitely say that person is foolish if they bought such a animal for a lot of money with no documentation as evidence. Reason being without the documentation neither the owner or others could readily tell if they got what they paid for. As such I would also be hesitant to throw out the whole you paid too much for that as those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

In regards to the video there are many ways albinism can express and one is yellowing with age due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. So an Albino can appear slightly Xanthic and since there's no good light source on the eyes of the Aro we can hardly claim definitively that it's not an Albino or something else.

With that said 1hottuna and vincent those are some beauties and I would definitely take Wes word a million times over then this gentleman. Wes has far more experience and knowledge as he's in the trade and travels often enough to know what's out there. My feeling is KELVINFONG has reasons beyond just trying to educate seeing as he's provided nothing and this seems to be the only thread that receives his attention which means there's probably ulterior motives for his posting. Your best bet is just to let him talk and ignore him unless he actually contributes something worthwhile other then his supposed personal observations.

Do you see how terrible you are? In your own words, you can't tell the difference between silver and black aro, because you have never kept black aro before. As for silver, you ONLY collecting platinum and snow. That's why you know the difference between snow, platinum, and albino. Do you collect albino? If you don't, how can you tell the difference between albino to platinum or snow? Do you keep xanthic or axanthic? If you don't, how can you dismiss another member axanthic or xanthic as common, low cost fish? Btw, what's the difference between platinum and snow? Care to explain/elaborate? What you've posted so far have clarified only one thing: you don't know what you're talking about!

So, from a guy who only collect snow and platinum to a guy who has an albino silver now. Wow! Did you just run to the supermarket next door and bought that albino in a hurry? Are you going to use that 3 feet in length, common, cheap albino silver that you've never paid attention to as feeder fish and feed it to your aros?
Platinum is a type of metal. Do you know that silver is also a type of metal? Snow is like white chalk eh? Should we call snow aro as chalk aro? If Vince aro is not a snow, then it's also not a platinum, and it must be a common albino silver, correct? Geez! Why don't you google up leucistic and snow (I would suggest ball python morph) and educate yourself first. Better, why don't you take time and read the post from koltsix, and not jumping to the conclusion of name calling. Just read it slowly. You'll learn a thing or two from it.

ok, I'm going to say something quick:

Brofong., here is the deal. Its the way you come here to say that these Xanthic silvers are cheap, easily bred, and not worth keeping that offends people.

The truth that hurts, is that you can't find too many pictures, if any xanthich silver arowanas online, period. If its so common you should be able to find one right away? Or its because, maybe you have lots of money, and can afford all kinds of snow and platinum, but your local stores cannot get this "xanthic" wild silver?

and the so cheap panda RTG that you say is so common, how much are they going for now ?

Yes, just at the fish. I'm honestly not offended at all. But the truth is besides the video posted which shares a tank with large platinum alligator gar, that fish is in Japan, and those fish sold for nearly 100,000 usd if I remember correctly.

Yes, you recall seeing them in the past, but not after, and not now, that means its not common. I never said its a new fish, its new in the US hobby, its new to me. Google up snow arowana, or platinum arowana, you could probably find hundreds of pictures, and then google up for xanthic silvers you get the point.

Bro, OK.. We agreed it is not a new fish but new to Us hobby.

When u google snow Arowana.. I can count only 3 to 4 are true snows. They are many pictures taken on these 3 to 4 fishes. The rest Just platinum or albino silver or white tank silver claiming to be a snow. The reason is clear why people label their fish as snow.
Because they know snow is extremely rare.

About the usd100000 tank.. I don't think it is worth that much. The gars are the platinum variant which is flooding the market now. The premium ones are the snow gars which are not present. Also not present are the plat and snow silvers.. So the only good fish there is probably the rtc because it is spotless. But again if put into black tank the spots will appear.. so hard to say.

The 2 sea bass is Just normal sea bass.

 

[koltsixx]

Bro koltsixx,

See the fishes as they present themselves. it said platinum and albino tank means it has to be one? . If it Is indeed albino and platinum.. Why is the 2 sea bass doing there? Don't tell me they are feeders for the aro.

Logically that's paper thin. The vid title is naming what they consider to be the centerpieces of the tank. Or do you think by coincidence there's three nearly identical colored Aro's in there and the RTC that is the same color and they're not the Albinos the title is talking about? Because there's 2 plecos in there and the Barra's that means he has to name all the fish in there for people who enjoy rare fish to be able to tell which are albinos and which are plats and which are regular plecos and Barra's? That's what you'd have us believe that coincidentally he listed what would be considered centerpiece fish but left out the Xanthic since they're as common as the pleco's and the Barra's?

Again I'll try to explain to you about albinism. Albinism can express itself as yellowish tinged especially with age(and that Aro looks pretty long in the tooth, older then the others). It's due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. Never mind that albinism is the lack or no melanin production and as such can have a yellow tinge to begin with they're not white animals. Xanthic is a animal with higher then normal yellow color such as these gars. Can you see the difference between the Aro in that vid and these gars? Which would you say that Aro is now? More closely colored to the other Albino Aro's or the Gars below?

 

[KELVINFONG]

Check out this vid are these xanthic? [video=youtube_share;Bk2neulEq-4]http://youtu.be/Bk2neulEq-4[/video]

Actually,those in the vid are albino, so what you saw as xanthic were just albino.

I saw a group of arowanA with translucent scales and no Red eyes.. I define that as a axanthic.. Of course I cannot deny it could being born from albino parents.. They share so much similarities. These were what I saw. Translucent scales Arowanas.. Just like the panda Rtg.. Which translucent scales...
They are not albino bro...

Not this guy again.....yep your right....easily breed and Very common fish.....I wish I would have listened before I bought it......hahahahahahahahaha

Albino variiant short body silver.... That's a lot of big words from a person who can't tell the difference between a black and silver arowana, the only important fact that's on your side bro! Why don't you quit while you're still ahead...

I don't know why you continue to post here? You made your opinion apparently clear and have offered no facts despite continually posting that you've seen them often and that they're commonly available. Fact: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>. So far you provided one pic that was so horrendous it almost looks to be a illustration on piece old paper and your statements over and over again that you've seen xanthics more then leucistics,snows and albinos. Facts would consist of actual documented numbers of how many captive bred animals there are of each or at very least and this would be reaching for it to be called a fact, producing more pictured examples of the xanthic over the other three. A quick search of the net and you'll find that the other three(leu,alb,snow) are far more photographed then anything claimed to be xanthic. This suggests that you're assertions are actually incorrect never mind that you have labeled your statements with no evidence as fact.

Now addressing genetics lets start with the "snow". Just so you know what a snow actually is it is an animal who is is a double homozygous. It is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. That being said a true snow is more likely to be one of the rarer if not rarest color morphs. Leucism on the other hand is the reduction of all pigment in an animal. That being said visually the two could look identical with the only way to tell the difference is if the animal had some expression of black in it's normal coloration. Seeing as Aro's don't the only other ways to tell would be to know the genetics of the parents or have the fish tested. With that said I'd be more then skeptical of someone claiming to have a snow who didn't have documentation and would definitely say that person is foolish if they bought such a animal for a lot of money with no documentation as evidence. Reason being without the documentation neither the owner or others could readily tell if they got what they paid for. As such I would also be hesitant to throw out the whole you paid too much for that as those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

In regards to the video there are many ways albinism can express and one is yellowing with age due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. So an Albino can appear slightly Xanthic and since there's no good light source on the eyes of the Aro we can hardly claim definitively that it's not an Albino or something else.

With that said 1hottuna and vincent those are some beauties and I would definitely take Wes word a million times over then this gentleman. Wes has far more experience and knowledge as he's in the trade and travels often enough to know what's out there. My feeling is KELVINFONG has reasons beyond just trying to educate seeing as he's provided nothing and this seems to be the only thread that receives his attention which means there's probably ulterior motives for his posting. Your best bet is just to let him talk and ignore him unless he actually contributes something worthwhile other then his supposed personal observations.

Do you see how terrible you are? In your own words, you can't tell the difference between silver and black aro, because you have never kept black aro before. As for silver, you ONLY collecting platinum and snow. That's why you know the difference between snow, platinum, and albino. Do you collect albino? If you don't, how can you tell the difference between albino to platinum or snow? Do you keep xanthic or axanthic? If you don't, how can you dismiss another member axanthic or xanthic as common, low cost fish? Btw, what's the difference between platinum and snow? Care to explain/elaborate? What you've posted so far have clarified only one thing: you don't know what you're talking about!

ok, I'm going to say something quick:

Brofong., here is the deal. Its the way you come here to say that these Xanthic silvers are cheap, easily bred, and not worth keeping that offends people.

The truth that hurts, is that you can't find too many pictures, if any xanthich silver arowanas online, period. If its so common you should be able to find one right away? Or its because, maybe you have lots of money, and can afford all kinds of snow and platinum, but your local stores cannot get this "xanthic" wild silver?

and the so cheap panda RTG that you say is so common, how much are they going for now ?

Yes, just at the fish. I'm honestly not offended at all. But the truth is besides the video posted which shares a tank with large platinum alligator gar, that fish is in Japan, and those fish sold for nearly 100,000 usd if I remember correctly.

Yes, you recall seeing them in the past, but not after, and not now, that means its not common. I never said its a new fish, its new in the US hobby, its new to me. Google up snow arowana, or platinum arowana, you could probably find hundreds of pictures, and then google up for xanthic silvers you get the point.

No snow and platinum are adjectives used to represent genetic abnormalities. They are used because those names are marketable. The difference isn't about looks alone otherwise if I used a procedure to strip the color off an Aro I could call it a platinum or snow depending on whether it retained it's metallic shine or not. The fact that you ignore the genetics of the fish shows how little you actually know about them. It is there genetics not just a fishes color that makes them rare.

I've said it before if xanthics are so common place why can't you find plenty of pictures to back that claim. Would you like to go picture for picture we'll look for snow and platinum aro's and you look for xanthics.

I also ask again if you have no ulterior motives why are you posting over and over again in just this thread when you've already made an assertion but offer no proof in the subsequent posts? What's the point?

First to begin with. How do know you If snow or platinum Refers to which Genetic defect? You have reference to show for example snow = leucistic or axanthic in a medical journal?

Second who cares about genetics. Why make. yourself confused with all these terms? Would you buy a fish strip down is actually a snow but physically looks like a normal silver or buy a fish that looks like a snow but when strip down to genetics is actually a normal silver? The answer is obvious right. See the fish as it presents itself. Snow and platinum are purely adjectives to describe the color and texture of the fish...

 

[vincentwugwg]

bro no offend but don't think your king is a snow.. Most likely a albino variant short body silver. .. I dont need anyone on my side. Facts on my side more important.

You are right...it is not a snow nor is it a platinum. Just a high shine albino king. That's why I put the '' but snow silver aros do not cost 100,000. Your defective snow came in the same box along with my king platinum short body gar.. you should reference this to the person who sold you your snow aro. And nice panda xbs still demand upwards of 1500 usd.

This is a 'snow'... no red coloration on it's tail, hence the term ' snow '

Here is your snow.. there is a hint of red on it's tail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


View attachment 1065723

 

[koltsixx]

First to begin with. How do know you If snow or platinum Refers to which Genetic defect? You have reference to show for example snow = leucistic or axanthic in a medical journal?

Second who cares about genetics. Why make. yourself confused with all these terms? Would you buy a fish strip down is actually a snow but physically looks like a normal silver or buy a fish that looks like a snow but when strip down to genetics is actually a normal silver? The answer is obvious right. See the fish as it presents itself. Snow and platinum are purely adjectives to describe the color and texture of the fish...

This coming from someone whose whole argument is based on I saw an xanthic a long time ago at a shop that's now closed. So by that logic do you have any medical journals to back up your claims? Please your arguments are very poor in construction since they negate your own original points. Words are double edged sword you can't hold me to standard you yourself are failing to meet while claiming your statements are fact.

Snow is an animal that is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. This also means that it carries both the albino and axanthic gene. See the key word there visibly. These terms where created to explain the appearance of the animal so how can you question how do I know what a snow is if a snow is by very definition the color it appears that's brought upon by it's genetics. These aren't arguable points. These aren't hypothesis or guesses this is genetics a proven fact. Unless you have something that counters the vailidity of genetics your point is moot at best. Albinism=an animal with a lack or total absence of melanin lack or total absence of brown, black coloration. Axanthic(not the same as xanthic) is the lack of yellow coloration. Since different animals have different reasons for the lack of yellow coloration I won't go into the list of missing or lacking xanthophores. This creates an animal which is totally white no colors to cause the reflection of scales etc. as seen in platinums. So unless you want to change your very definition of snow aro's and say snow aro's are black then my fact is proven by the very definition of the genetic abnormality being the expression of a matte white color in an animal.

You for one care about the genetics because they're the reason the fish you buy cost so much and are so rare. Again as I said before if I stripped an Aro of it's color and produced a Aro that looked like a snow would it be worth as much? No because it's not rare it's a processed fish that can be easily reproduced. What makes these fish expensive is they're genetic abnormalities and can't be easily reproduced either because of recessive genes or negative genetic material tied to the genes that express the coloration. These colors are not beneficial in the wild so they get cast aside and tied to other undesirable(to survival) traits and cause the deformities commonly seen with these rare fish.

 

[Zeke]

Again, Kolt,two very good posts explaining why they are rare.I for one, saw a yellow colored gar, myself in person, with my own eyes in the early 1990's in Atlanta, Georgia at a tropical fish wholesale business named Finn's. From what I understand they were bought out by the company that currently exists now in the same location. The company's name is Sunpet. The gar was in a 200 gallon aquarium and stayed there for quite some time. It was Bob, the business' owner's personal fish. He loved that fish. The reason was, it was one of a kind and irreplaceable I suppose. The fish met an early demise , when it managed to jump out of the aquarium , through a small opening in the top of said aquarium. Even back then, I was told it was not albino, it had black eyes and was xanthic. I got a crash course in genetics that spring morning when all I really wanted to do was go look at and buy some oddball fish in the back warehouse. It stuck with me, what I learned that morning, because I figured if I payed attention and explained back to him how it was caused and how rare that the fish was, then I was free to go look at fish. Kolt & Bro Wes have explained that process ten fold better than that man did 25 years ago in Atlanta. I understood what it was and why it was so rare way back then and I was ONLY a teenager at the time. I don't understand why you don't understand that it's so rare and cannot be genetically 're-engineered at will, Bro Fong? It's extremely obvious that the Arowanas that Bro Wes has imported from the wild in South America are, and have the same coloring as the gar shown in this thread and the one I saw in Atlanta. They are NOT going to turn into the normal colored fish that you believe that they will in the future, at any point. Just are not going to. So they aren't albino(because of the black eyes) , they aren't snow(not white in any way), not platinum(no shiny metallic sheen,at all), and they're not normal colored fish either(they are yellowish,even orangish to some extent, with a black spot or eye/occeli spot behind their operculum/gill cover). Right? That only leaves xanthic, non-man-made, extremely rare, one in a million arowana fish. I certainly cannot find but a couple, three,four or so of these fish pictured anywhere on the internet. It's xanthic, not gonna turn normal colored ever. Just admit you were wrong in your claims, because you can't back any of it up. It's ok, we all will still talk to you and consider your points made valid, if they do indeed have basis and proof in the future. The fishgeeks were right in their claim this time, and have the physical proof and reference materials to back their claim up. It's a wild-caught,not normal colored, not albino,snow,or platinum by any stretch of imagination. It's a non-man-made fish that cannot be genetically replicated at will that is completely new to the US and extremely rare elsewhere. Right? Am I correct in this statement of the absolute facts of these individual fish imported by Bro Wes? Just say yes, you know they and everyone else is correct.

 

[koltsixx]

Again, Kolt,two very good posts explaining why they are rare.

Thanks man, I was hoping at very least someone was getting something out of my long posts. I myself wouldn't even dare call myself a novice when it comes to genetics but I do know some things. At very least this back and forth has inspired me to educate myself better about basic genetics because I forgot how interesting it can be.

 

[KELVINFONG]

Check out this vid are these xanthic? [video=youtube_share;Bk2neulEq-4]http://youtu.be/Bk2neulEq-4[/video]

Actually,those in the vid are albino, so what you saw as xanthic were just albino.

I saw a group of arowanA with translucent scales and no Red eyes.. I define that as a axanthic.. Of course I cannot deny it could being born from albino parents.. They share so much similarities. These were what I saw. Translucent scales Arowanas.. Just like the panda Rtg.. Which translucent scales...
They are not albino bro...

Not this guy again.....yep your right....easily breed and Very common fish.....I wish I would have listened before I bought it......hahahahahahahahaha

Albino variiant short body silver.... That's a lot of big words from a person who can't tell the difference between a black and silver arowana, the only important fact that's on your side bro! Why don't you quit while you're still ahead...

I don't know why you continue to post here? You made your opinion apparently clear and have offered no facts despite continually posting that you've seen them often and that they're commonly available. Fact: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>. So far you provided one pic that was so horrendous it almost looks to be a illustration on piece old paper and your statements over and over again that you've seen xanthics more then leucistics,snows and albinos. Facts would consist of actual documented numbers of how many captive bred animals there are of each or at very least and this would be reaching for it to be called a fact, producing more pictured examples of the xanthic over the other three. A quick search of the net and you'll find that the other three(leu,alb,snow) are far more photographed then anything claimed to be xanthic. This suggests that you're assertions are actually incorrect never mind that you have labeled your statements with no evidence as fact.

Now addressing genetics lets start with the "snow". Just so you know what a snow actually is it is an animal who is is a double homozygous. It is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. That being said a true snow is more likely to be one of the rarer if not rarest color morphs. Leucism on the other hand is the reduction of all pigment in an animal. That being said visually the two could look identical with the only way to tell the difference is if the animal had some expression of black in it's normal coloration. Seeing as Aro's don't the only other ways to tell would be to know the genetics of the parents or have the fish tested. With that said I'd be more then skeptical of someone claiming to have a snow who didn't have documentation and would definitely say that person is foolish if they bought such a animal for a lot of money with no documentation as evidence. Reason being without the documentation neither the owner or others could readily tell if they got what they paid for. As such I would also be hesitant to throw out the whole you paid too much for that as those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

In regards to the video there are many ways albinism can express and one is yellowing with age due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. So an Albino can appear slightly Xanthic and since there's no good light source on the eyes of the Aro we can hardly claim definitively that it's not an Albino or something else.

With that said 1hottuna and vincent those are some beauties and I would definitely take Wes word a million times over then this gentleman. Wes has far more experience and knowledge as he's in the trade and travels often enough to know what's out there. My feeling is KELVINFONG has reasons beyond just trying to educate seeing as he's provided nothing and this seems to be the only thread that receives his attention which means there's probably ulterior motives for his posting. Your best bet is just to let him talk and ignore him unless he actually contributes something worthwhile other then his supposed personal observations.

Do you see how terrible you are? In your own words, you can't tell the difference between silver and black aro, because you have never kept black aro before. As for silver, you ONLY collecting platinum and snow. That's why you know the difference between snow, platinum, and albino. Do you collect albino? If you don't, how can you tell the difference between albino to platinum or snow? Do you keep xanthic or axanthic? If you don't, how can you dismiss another member axanthic or xanthic as common, low cost fish? Btw, what's the difference between platinum and snow? Care to explain/elaborate? What you've posted so far have clarified only one thing: you don't know what you're talking about!

ok, I'm going to say something quick:

Brofong., here is the deal. Its the way you come here to say that these Xanthic silvers are cheap, easily bred, and not worth keeping that offends people.

The truth that hurts, is that you can't find too many pictures, if any xanthich silver arowanas online, period. If its so common you should be able to find one right away? Or its because, maybe you have lots of money, and can afford all kinds of snow and platinum, but your local stores cannot get this "xanthic" wild silver?

and the so cheap panda RTG that you say is so common, how much are they going for now ?

Yes, just at the fish. I'm honestly not offended at all. But the truth is besides the video posted which shares a tank with large platinum alligator gar, that fish is in Japan, and those fish sold for nearly 100,000 usd if I remember correctly.

Yes, you recall seeing them in the past, but not after, and not now, that means its not common. I never said its a new fish, its new in the US hobby, its new to me. Google up snow arowana, or platinum arowana, you could probably find hundreds of pictures, and then google up for xanthic silvers you get the point.

No snow and platinum are adjectives used to represent genetic abnormalities. They are used because those names are marketable. The difference isn't about looks alone otherwise if I used a procedure to strip the color off an Aro I could call it a platinum or snow depending on whether it retained it's metallic shine or not. The fact that you ignore the genetics of the fish shows how little you actually know about them. It is there genetics not just a fishes color that makes them rare.

I've said it before if xanthics are so common place why can't you find plenty of pictures to back that claim. Would you like to go picture for picture we'll look for snow and platinum aro's and you look for xanthics.

I also ask again if you have no ulterior motives why are you posting over and over again in just this thread when you've already made an assertion but offer no proof in the subsequent posts? What's the point?

You are right...it is not a snow nor is it a platinum. Just a high shine albino king. That's why I put the '' but snow silver aros do not cost 100,000. Your defective snow came in the same box along with my king platinum short body gar.. you should reference this to the person who sold you your snow aro. And nice panda xbs still demand upwards of 1500 usd.

This is a 'snow'... no red coloration on it's tail, hence the term ' snow '
View attachment 1065721
Here is your snow.. there is a hint of red on it's tail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
View attachment 1065722

View attachment 1065723

Again, Kolt,two very good posts explaining why they are rare.I for one, saw a yellow colored gar, myself in person, with my own eyes in the early 1990's in Atlanta, Georgia at a tropical fish wholesale business named Finn's. From what I understand they were bought out by the company that currently exists now in the same location. The company's name is Sunpet. The gar was in a 200 gallon aquarium and stayed there for quite some time. It was Bob, the business' owner's personal fish. He loved that fish. The reason was, it was one of a kind and irreplaceable I suppose. The fish met an early demise , when it managed to jump out of the aquarium , through a small opening in the top of said aquarium. Even back then, I was told it was not albino, it had black eyes and was xanthic. I got a crash course in genetics that spring morning when all I really wanted to do was go look at and buy some oddball fish in the back warehouse. It stuck with me, what I learned that morning, because I figured if I payed attention and explained back to him how it was caused and how rare that the fish was, then I was free to go look at fish. Kolt & Bro Wes have explained that process ten fold better than that man did 25 years ago in Atlanta. I understood what it was and why it was so rare way back then and I was ONLY a teenager at the time. I don't understand why you don't understand that it's so rare and cannot be genetically 're-engineered at will, Bro Fong? It's extremely obvious that the Arowanas that Bro Wes has imported from the wild in South America are, and have the same coloring as the gar shown in this thread and the one I saw in Atlanta. They are NOT going to turn into the normal colored fish that you believe that they will in the future, at any point. Just are not going to. So they aren't albino(because of the black eyes) , they aren't snow(not white in any way), not platinum(no shiny metallic sheen,at all), and they're not normal colored fish either(they are yellowish,even orangish to some extent, with a black spot or eye/occeli spot behind their operculum/gill cover). Right? That only leaves xanthic, non-man-made, extremely rare, one in a million arowana fish. I certainly cannot find but a couple, three,four or so of these fish pictured anywhere on the internet. It's xanthic, not gonna turn normal colored ever. Just admit you were wrong in your claims, because you can't back any of it up. It's ok, we all will still talk to you and consider your points made valid, if they do indeed have basis and proof in the future. The fishgeeks were right in their claim this time, and have the physical proof and reference materials to back their claim up. It's a wild-caught,not normal colored, not albino,snow,or platinum by any stretch of imagination. It's a non-man-made fish that cannot be genetically replicated at will that is completely new to the US and extremely rare elsewhere. Right? Am I correct in this statement of the absolute facts of these individual fish imported by Bro Wes? Just say yes, you know they and everyone else is correct.

If they replicate the axanhtic rtg why cannot replicate the silver? Thought the Asian is harder to breed as compared to the silver? So by logic i cannot agree it cannot be replicated...

 

[KELVINFONG]

Check out this vid are these xanthic? [video=youtube_share;Bk2neulEq-4]http://youtu.be/Bk2neulEq-4[/video]

Actually,those in the vid are albino, so what you saw as xanthic were just albino.

I saw a group of arowanA with translucent scales and no Red eyes.. I define that as a axanthic.. Of course I cannot deny it could being born from albino parents.. They share so much similarities. These were what I saw. Translucent scales Arowanas.. Just like the panda Rtg.. Which translucent scales...
They are not albino bro...

Not this guy again.....yep your right....easily breed and Very common fish.....I wish I would have listened before I bought it......hahahahahahahahaha

Albino variiant short body silver.... That's a lot of big words from a person who can't tell the difference between a black and silver arowana, the only important fact that's on your side bro! Why don't you quit while you're still ahead...

I don't know why you continue to post here? You made your opinion apparently clear and have offered no facts despite continually posting that you've seen them often and that they're commonly available. Fact: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>. So far you provided one pic that was so horrendous it almost looks to be a illustration on piece old paper and your statements over and over again that you've seen xanthics more then leucistics,snows and albinos. Facts would consist of actual documented numbers of how many captive bred animals there are of each or at very least and this would be reaching for it to be called a fact, producing more pictured examples of the xanthic over the other three. A quick search of the net and you'll find that the other three(leu,alb,snow) are far more photographed then anything claimed to be xanthic. This suggests that you're assertions are actually incorrect never mind that you have labeled your statements with no evidence as fact.

Now addressing genetics lets start with the "snow". Just so you know what a snow actually is it is an animal who is is a double homozygous. It is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. That being said a true snow is more likely to be one of the rarer if not rarest color morphs. Leucism on the other hand is the reduction of all pigment in an animal. That being said visually the two could look identical with the only way to tell the difference is if the animal had some expression of black in it's normal coloration. Seeing as Aro's don't the only other ways to tell would be to know the genetics of the parents or have the fish tested. With that said I'd be more then skeptical of someone claiming to have a snow who didn't have documentation and would definitely say that person is foolish if they bought such a animal for a lot of money with no documentation as evidence. Reason being without the documentation neither the owner or others could readily tell if they got what they paid for. As such I would also be hesitant to throw out the whole you paid too much for that as those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

In regards to the video there are many ways albinism can express and one is yellowing with age due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. So an Albino can appear slightly Xanthic and since there's no good light source on the eyes of the Aro we can hardly claim definitively that it's not an Albino or something else.

With that said 1hottuna and vincent those are some beauties and I would definitely take Wes word a million times over then this gentleman. Wes has far more experience and knowledge as he's in the trade and travels often enough to know what's out there. My feeling is KELVINFONG has reasons beyond just trying to educate seeing as he's provided nothing and this seems to be the only thread that receives his attention which means there's probably ulterior motives for his posting. Your best bet is just to let him talk and ignore him unless he actually contributes something worthwhile other then his supposed personal observations.

Do you see how terrible you are? In your own words, you can't tell the difference between silver and black aro, because you have never kept black aro before. As for silver, you ONLY collecting platinum and snow. That's why you know the difference between snow, platinum, and albino. Do you collect albino? If you don't, how can you tell the difference between albino to platinum or snow? Do you keep xanthic or axanthic? If you don't, how can you dismiss another member axanthic or xanthic as common, low cost fish? Btw, what's the difference between platinum and snow? Care to explain/elaborate? What you've posted so far have clarified only one thing: you don't know what you're talking about!

ok, I'm going to say something quick:

Brofong., here is the deal. Its the way you come here to say that these Xanthic silvers are cheap, easily bred, and not worth keeping that offends people.

The truth that hurts, is that you can't find too many pictures, if any xanthich silver arowanas online, period. If its so common you should be able to find one right away? Or its because, maybe you have lots of money, and can afford all kinds of snow and platinum, but your local stores cannot get this "xanthic" wild silver?

and the so cheap panda RTG that you say is so common, how much are they going for now ?

Yes, just at the fish. I'm honestly not offended at all. But the truth is besides the video posted which shares a tank with large platinum alligator gar, that fish is in Japan, and those fish sold for nearly 100,000 usd if I remember correctly.

Yes, you recall seeing them in the past, but not after, and not now, that means its not common. I never said its a new fish, its new in the US hobby, its new to me. Google up snow arowana, or platinum arowana, you could probably find hundreds of pictures, and then google up for xanthic silvers you get the point.

No snow and platinum are adjectives used to represent genetic abnormalities. They are used because those names are marketable. The difference isn't about looks alone otherwise if I used a procedure to strip the color off an Aro I could call it a platinum or snow depending on whether it retained it's metallic shine or not. The fact that you ignore the genetics of the fish shows how little you actually know about them. It is there genetics not just a fishes color that makes them rare.

I've said it before if xanthics are so common place why can't you find plenty of pictures to back that claim. Would you like to go picture for picture we'll look for snow and platinum aro's and you look for xanthics.

I also ask again if you have no ulterior motives why are you posting over and over again in just this thread when you've already made an assertion but offer no proof in the subsequent posts? What's the point?

Again, Kolt,two very good posts explaining why they are rare.I for one, saw a yellow colored gar, myself in person, with my own eyes in the early 1990's in Atlanta, Georgia at a tropical fish wholesale business named Finn's. From what I understand they were bought out by the company that currently exists now in the same location. The company's name is Sunpet. The gar was in a 200 gallon aquarium and stayed there for quite some time. It was Bob, the business' owner's personal fish. He loved that fish. The reason was, it was one of a kind and irreplaceable I suppose. The fish met an early demise , when it managed to jump out of the aquarium , through a small opening in the top of said aquarium. Even back then, I was told it was not albino, it had black eyes and was xanthic. I got a crash course in genetics that spring morning when all I really wanted to do was go look at and buy some oddball fish in the back warehouse. It stuck with me, what I learned that morning, because I figured if I payed attention and explained back to him how it was caused and how rare that the fish was, then I was free to go look at fish. Kolt & Bro Wes have explained that process ten fold better than that man did 25 years ago in Atlanta. I understood what it was and why it was so rare way back then and I was ONLY a teenager at the time. I don't understand why you don't understand that it's so rare and cannot be genetically 're-engineered at will, Bro Fong? It's extremely obvious that the Arowanas that Bro Wes has imported from the wild in South America are, and have the same coloring as the gar shown in this thread and the one I saw in Atlanta. They are NOT going to turn into the normal colored fish that you believe that they will in the future, at any point. Just are not going to. So they aren't albino(because of the black eyes) , they aren't snow(not white in any way), not platinum(no shiny metallic sheen,at all), and they're not normal colored fish either(they are yellowish,even orangish to some extent, with a black spot or eye/occeli spot behind their operculum/gill cover). Right? That only leaves xanthic, non-man-made, extremely rare, one in a million arowana fish. I certainly cannot find but a couple, three,four or so of these fish pictured anywhere on the internet. It's xanthic, not gonna turn normal colored ever. Just admit you were wrong in your claims, because you can't back any of it up. It's ok, we all will still talk to you and consider your points made valid, if they do indeed have basis and proof in the future. The fishgeeks were right in their claim this time, and have the physical proof and reference materials to back their claim up. It's a wild-caught,not normal colored, not albino,snow,or platinum by any stretch of imagination. It's a non-man-made fish that cannot be genetically replicated at will that is completely new to the US and extremely rare elsewhere. Right? Am I correct in this statement of the absolute facts of these individual fish imported by Bro Wes? Just say yes, you know they and everyone else is correct.

You are right...it is not a snow nor is it a platinum. Just a high shine albino king. That's why I put the '' but snow silver aros do not cost 100,000. Your defective snow came in the same box along with my king platinum short body gar.. you should reference this to the person who sold you your snow aro. And nice panda xbs still demand upwards of 1500 usd.

This is a 'snow'... no red coloration on it's tail, hence the term ' snow '
View attachment 1065721
Here is your snow.. there is a hint of red on it's tail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
View attachment 1065722

View attachment 1065723

I have discussed this before in atofanatics. The red color tail Is not an indication if it is snow or platinum.
. you should refer to that thread. The red tail platinum silver Is now a white tail fish. No adult silver has red tail.

 

[KELVINFONG]

Check out this vid are these xanthic? [video=youtube_share;Bk2neulEq-4]http://youtu.be/Bk2neulEq-4[/video]

Actually,those in the vid are albino, so what you saw as xanthic were just albino.

I saw a group of arowanA with translucent scales and no Red eyes.. I define that as a axanthic.. Of course I cannot deny it could being born from albino parents.. They share so much similarities. These were what I saw. Translucent scales Arowanas.. Just like the panda Rtg.. Which translucent scales...
They are not albino bro...

Not this guy again.....yep your right....easily breed and Very common fish.....I wish I would have listened before I bought it......hahahahahahahahaha

I don't know why you continue to post here? You made your opinion apparently clear and have offered no facts despite continually posting that you've seen them often and that they're commonly available. Fact: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>. So far you provided one pic that was so horrendous it almost looks to be a illustration on piece old paper and your statements over and over again that you've seen xanthics more then leucistics,snows and albinos. Facts would consist of actual documented numbers of how many captive bred animals there are of each or at very least and this would be reaching for it to be called a fact, producing more pictured examples of the xanthic over the other three. A quick search of the net and you'll find that the other three(leu,alb,snow) are far more photographed then anything claimed to be xanthic. This suggests that you're assertions are actually incorrect never mind that you have labeled your statements with no evidence as fact.

Now addressing genetics lets start with the "snow". Just so you know what a snow actually is it is an animal who is is a double homozygous. It is homozygous (visibly) for both the albino and axanthic gene. That being said a true snow is more likely to be one of the rarer if not rarest color morphs. Leucism on the other hand is the reduction of all pigment in an animal. That being said visually the two could look identical with the only way to tell the difference is if the animal had some expression of black in it's normal coloration. Seeing as Aro's don't the only other ways to tell would be to know the genetics of the parents or have the fish tested. With that said I'd be more then skeptical of someone claiming to have a snow who didn't have documentation and would definitely say that person is foolish if they bought such a animal for a lot of money with no documentation as evidence. Reason being without the documentation neither the owner or others could readily tell if they got what they paid for. As such I would also be hesitant to throw out the whole you paid too much for that as those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

In regards to the video there are many ways albinism can express and one is yellowing with age due to the accumulation of riboflavins from its diet. So an Albino can appear slightly Xanthic and since there's no good light source on the eyes of the Aro we can hardly claim definitively that it's not an Albino or something else.

With that said 1hottuna and vincent those are some beauties and I would definitely take Wes word a million times over then this gentleman. Wes has far more experience and knowledge as he's in the trade and travels often enough to know what's out there. My feeling is KELVINFONG has reasons beyond just trying to educate seeing as he's provided nothing and this seems to be the only thread that receives his attention which means there's probably ulterior motives for his posting. Your best bet is just to let him talk and ignore him unless he actually contributes something worthwhile other then his supposed personal observations.

Do you see how terrible you are? In your own words, you can't tell the difference between silver and black aro, because you have never kept black aro before. As for silver, you ONLY collecting platinum and snow. That's why you know the difference between snow, platinum, and albino. Do you collect albino? If you don't, how can you tell the difference between albino to platinum or snow? Do you keep xanthic or axanthic? If you don't, how can you dismiss another member axanthic or xanthic as common, low cost fish? Btw, what's the difference between platinum and snow? Care to explain/elaborate? What you've posted so far have clarified only one thing: you don't know what you're talking about!

ok, I'm going to say something quick:

Brofong., here is the deal. Its the way you come here to say that these Xanthic silvers are cheap, easily bred, and not worth keeping that offends people.

The truth that hurts, is that you can't find too many pictures, if any xanthich silver arowanas online, period. If its so common you should be able to find one right away? Or its because, maybe you have lots of money, and can afford all kinds of snow and platinum, but your local stores cannot get this "xanthic" wild silver?

and the so cheap panda RTG that you say is so common, how much are they going for now ?

Yes, just at the fish. I'm honestly not offended at all. But the truth is besides the video posted which shares a tank with large platinum alligator gar, that fish is in Japan, and those fish sold for nearly 100,000 usd if I remember correctly.

Yes, you recall seeing them in the past, but not after, and not now, that means its not common. I never said its a new fish, its new in the US hobby, its new to me. Google up snow arowana, or platinum arowana, you could probably find hundreds of pictures, and then google up for xanthic silvers you get the point.

No snow and platinum are adjectives used to represent genetic abnormalities. They are used because those names are marketable. The difference isn't about looks alone otherwise if I used a procedure to strip the color off an Aro I could call it a platinum or snow depending on whether it retained it's metallic shine or not. The fact that you ignore the genetics of the fish shows how little you actually know about them. It is there genetics not just a fishes color that makes them rare.

I've said it before if xanthics are so common place why can't you find plenty of pictures to back that claim. Would you like to go picture for picture we'll look for snow and platinum aro's and you look for xanthics.

I also ask again if you have no ulterior motives why are you posting over and over again in just this thread when you've already made an assertion but offer no proof in the subsequent posts? What's the point?

Again, Kolt,two very good posts explaining why they are rare.I for one, saw a yellow colored gar, myself in person, with my own eyes in the early 1990's in Atlanta, Georgia at a tropical fish wholesale business named Finn's. From what I understand they were bought out by the company that currently exists now in the same location. The company's name is Sunpet. The gar was in a 200 gallon aquarium and stayed there for quite some time. It was Bob, the business' owner's personal fish. He loved that fish. The reason was, it was one of a kind and irreplaceable I suppose. The fish met an early demise , when it managed to jump out of the aquarium , through a small opening in the top of said aquarium. Even back then, I was told it was not albino, it had black eyes and was xanthic. I got a crash course in genetics that spring morning when all I really wanted to do was go look at and buy some oddball fish in the back warehouse. It stuck with me, what I learned that morning, because I figured if I payed attention and explained back to him how it was caused and how rare that the fish was, then I was free to go look at fish. Kolt & Bro Wes have explained that process ten fold better than that man did 25 years ago in Atlanta. I understood what it was and why it was so rare way back then and I was ONLY a teenager at the time. I don't understand why you don't understand that it's so rare and cannot be genetically 're-engineered at will, Bro Fong? It's extremely obvious that the Arowanas that Bro Wes has imported from the wild in South America are, and have the same coloring as the gar shown in this thread and the one I saw in Atlanta. They are NOT going to turn into the normal colored fish that you believe that they will in the future, at any point. Just are not going to. So they aren't albino(because of the black eyes) , they aren't snow(not white in any way), not platinum(no shiny metallic sheen,at all), and they're not normal colored fish either(they are yellowish,even orangish to some extent, with a black spot or eye/occeli spot behind their operculum/gill cover). Right? That only leaves xanthic, non-man-made, extremely rare, one in a million arowana fish. I certainly cannot find but a couple, three,four or so of these fish pictured anywhere on the internet. It's xanthic, not gonna turn normal colored ever. Just admit you were wrong in your claims, because you can't back any of it up. It's ok, we all will still talk to you and consider your points made valid, if they do indeed have basis and proof in the future. The fishgeeks were right in their claim this time, and have the physical proof and reference materials to back their claim up. It's a wild-caught,not normal colored, not albino,snow,or platinum by any stretch of imagination. It's a non-man-made fish that cannot be genetically replicated at will that is completely new to the US and extremely rare elsewhere. Right? Am I correct in this statement of the absolute facts of these individual fish imported by Bro Wes? Just say yes, you know they and everyone else is correct.

You are right...it is not a snow nor is it a platinum. Just a high shine albino king. That's why I put the '' but snow silver aros do not cost 100,000. Your defective snow came in the same box along with my king platinum short body gar.. you should reference this to the person who sold you your snow aro. And nice panda xbs still demand upwards of 1500 usd.

This is a 'snow'... no red coloration on it's tail, hence the term ' snow '
View attachment 1065721
Here is your snow.. there is a hint of red on it's tail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
View attachment 1065722

View attachment 1065723

I have discussed this before in atofanatics. The red color tail Is not an indication if it is snow or platinum.
. you should refer to that thread. The red tail platinum silver Is now a white tail fish. No adult silver has red tail.

Albino variiant short body silver.... That's a lot of big words from a person who can't tell the difference between a black and silver arowana, the only important fact that's on your side bro! Why don't you quit while you're still ahead...

I was right on this one too. Albino Silver... guess u could not tell right?