NEWBS-STOP OVERTHINKING SUMPS!!!

[DN328]

I think the way that I set-up my filtration was influenced by reef tanks. I will admit it was probably not necessary - but it gets the job done AND I enjoy it. Although, I know that having a successful reef tank requires much more filtration, including the skimmer as mentioned above and much more water flow. Anyway, as I say, what's under the tank for some is almost as enjoyable as what's in the tank.

My neighbor has an Evo putting 500+ to the wheels. He doesn't track. Does he need it, no. But I think it's damn cool. That's what hobbies are about, right?

 

[Pharaoh]

The definition of stocked well is different for everyone.... I started backwards back in the days... overstocked with "BASIC" sump setups --- killed all my fish.....and yes I took my time adding fish (not all at once). JDM or highly stocked fish tanks (which many here do have but I realize it's not for everyone)....... I think people tend to under-estimate the need to more "efficient" sump designs to keep up with high bioloads..... if I were to use the sump design on this thread.... ALL MY FISH WOULD DIE....... BUT I AGREE...... as long as the bio is light/medium, simple designs do work.

JDM or not, people overestimate the biofiltration. If that isn't true, feel free to provide the calculation everyone uses to decide precisely how much bio-media one would need for a tank given the size and stocking. I doubt it was the sump setup that killed your fish. More than likely it was a lack of something.

The reality is that no one really knows and there are hundreds of variable to go into the equation. People just pick an amount they feel comfortable with and go with it. Trial and error. There really isn't a difference between JDM stocking and a properly stocked tank when discussing the nitrogen cycle. There is just more nitrogen to deal with. We just dump bio-media until we feel safe. I have lower amounts of bio-media, my levels are read just fine.

When dealing with efficiency, it is all about getting the waste to the bacteria so that it can process it. Yes, if your media gets too dirty, it can make it less efficient, but proper mechanical filtration should eliminate this in the first place.

Sumps are sumps. Just because it is a complicated design, doesn't make if better or more efficient.

 

[shookONES]

Also,I have been out of the salt side of the hobby for a few years now but I don't recall seeing a well established salt tank that wasn't equipped with a protein skimmer.

Really? There are plenty of of reef tanks that run without a skimmer. Hell, my old mixed reef looked the best when I was without a skimmer. But that's another topic for another forum...

JDM or not, people overestimate the biofiltration. If that isn't true, feel free to provide the calculation everyone uses to decide precisely how much bio-media one would need for a tank given the size and stocking. I doubt it was the sump setup that killed your fish. More than likely it was a lack of something.

The reality is that no one really knows and there are hundreds of variable to go into the equation. People just pick an amount they feel comfortable with and go with it. Trial and error. There really isn't a difference between JDM stocking and a properly stocked tank when discussing the nitrogen cycle. There is just more nitrogen to deal with. We just dump bio-media until we feel safe. I have lower amounts of bio-media, my levels are read just fine.

When dealing with efficiency, it is all about getting the waste to the bacteria so that it can process it. Yes, if your media gets too dirty, it can make it less efficient, but proper mechanical filtration should eliminate this in the first place.

Sumps are sumps. Just because it is a complicated design, doesn't make if better or more efficient.

Sump aren't just sump. In these basic sump designs, water is free to flow from point A to B without any direction. The nature of water is to take the path of least resistance, ie around the bio media, rather than through it. Baffled sumps force water through bio media, making the most of what you have in there.

This argument is flawed in so many ways. We're ignoring the fact that not all bio media isn't created equal. Hell, the differences between submersed media along would warrant pages and pages of text to describe.

Long story short, these basic sumps have their place, but they are far from the best.

 

[framcosco]

Really? There are plenty of of reef tanks that run without a skimmer. Hell, my old mixed reef looked the best when I was without a skimmer. But that's another topic for another forum...



Sump aren't just sump. In these basic sump designs, water is free to flow from point A to B without any direction. The nature of water is to take the path of least resistance, ie around the bio media, rather than through it. Baffled sumps force water through bio media, making the most of what you have in there.

This argument is flawed in so many ways. We're ignoring the fact that not all bio media isn't created equal. Hell, the differences between submersed media along would warrant pages and pages of text to describe.

Long story short, these basic sumps have their place, but they are far from the best.

Thank you Mike. You are absolutely correct.

 

[framcosco]

JDM or not, people overestimate the biofiltration. If that isn't true, feel free to provide the calculation everyone uses to decide precisely how much bio-media one would need for a tank given the size and stocking. I doubt it was the sump setup that killed your fish. More than likely it was a lack of something.

The reality is that no one really knows and there are hundreds of variable to go into the equation. People just pick an amount they feel comfortable with and go with it. Trial and error. There really isn't a difference between JDM stocking and a properly stocked tank when discussing the nitrogen cycle. There is just more nitrogen to deal with. We just dump bio-media until we feel safe. I have lower amounts of bio-media, my levels are read just fine.

When dealing with efficiency, it is all about getting the waste to the bacteria so that it can process it. Yes, if your media gets too dirty, it can make it less efficient, but proper mechanical filtration should eliminate this in the first place.

Sumps are sumps. Just because it is a complicated design, doesn't make if better or more efficient.

The sump design IS what killed my fish. The sump was unable to house the necessary bacteria to process the ammonia & nitrites....... I could have had the entire sump filled with the "BEST" bio media but this simplified sump could not & would not maintain a JDM or overstocked system......Highly stocked is simply just a whole different monster vs the average fish set-up.

The design in a sump IS what creates this efficiency you speak of.....

.......and I wholeheartedly diasagree..... we underestimate when JDM & overstocked is concern......
that is why many fail at it when tried......

Disclaimer...... I do not disagree with the basic sump set-up..... it can & will work under certain situations.

 

[boldtogether]

JDM or not, people overestimate the biofiltration. If that isn't true, feel free to provide the calculation everyone uses to decide precisely how much bio-media one would need for a tank given the size and stocking. I doubt it was the sump setup that killed your fish. More than likely it was a lack of something.

The reality is that no one really knows and there are hundreds of variable to go into the equation. People just pick an amount they feel comfortable with and go with it. Trial and error. There really isn't a difference between JDM stocking and a properly stocked tank when discussing the nitrogen cycle. There is just more nitrogen to deal with. We just dump bio-media until we feel safe. I have lower amounts of bio-media, my levels are read just fine.

When dealing with efficiency, it is all about getting the waste to the bacteria so that it can process it. Yes, if your media gets too dirty, it can make it less efficient, but proper mechanical filtration should eliminate this in the first place.

Sumps are sumps. Just because it is a complicated design, doesn't make if better or more efficient.

Not only that, tell me when that media is in need of changeout....it DOESN'T lastforever. With a chambered sump, 100% of the water may contacts the media.....but there is no ability to adjust for contact time. My open sumps always had a recirculation pump "sampling" the water flowing through the sump and keeping the bio well fed..a chamber holding the media doesn't mean water is properly flowing through it. Most of my bio media is separately contained and specifically fed a constant flow rate to ensure contact time.
I don't think the OP meant for this thread to evolve into a debate about simple vs complex sump design. And I hope we all do agree that simple is almost always better no matter what system is used.

 

[rodger]

I made a 100 gal stock tank into an MB with 75 liters of K1. Nothing processes fish waste faster.

 

[boldtogether]

Thata a lot of K1...

 

[pops]

if the water can go around the media, rather than through it, I just not see it being practical. its doing no more than the gravel in your tank. IMHO

 

[boldtogether]

if the water can go around the media, rather than through it, I just not see it being practical. its doing no more than the gravel in your tank. IMHO

You make it sound like it is a water proof dam....the water flows the path of leadt resistance true, but when we are talking about a bag of media, the water flows quite easily through and to every piece of media.
Its actually when you start baffling and redirecting the flow that you start getting dead spots in your sump....just like in the main tank. You clutter up the main tank with a lot of decor, you will indeed create dead spots.