Nitrate and ????

[esoxlucius]

it is common knowledge by now that nitrate is not the only reason we perform water changes. It is but a mere guide, and a good one, when water changes are due.

Now, as many of you are aware I have a new 120 and that new tank is going through the usual "measuring period" that a new tank goes through to establish my water change regime. The tank was set up on Saturday 13th, and the nitrate build up on this lightly stocked tank this morning was about 10ppm, which is extremely good compared to my heavily stocked Asian 360 com tank where 20ppm nitrate is reached after only 3 days!

I performed a 50% water change on my 120 anyway, even though I could have gone another few days. Now because nitrate is so easy to test for, it is the main parameter we use to tell us when a water change is due. However, we all know by now that nitrate isn't the only potential "nasty" slowly, and invisibly, building up in our tanks.

If I had left my 120 another few days until my nitrate reached about 20ppm, that would possibly be around the 2 week mark, which seems like an age between water changes, compared to what I'm used to anyway.

This got me thinking. Just what other "nasties" are we talking about when we say that we don't just do water changes because of nitrate? Is the build up of fish pheromones considered a "nasty?" Is it the rising TDS that would be considered a "nasty?" What else is there? And lastly, is nitrate actually the top of the list when it comes to "nasties?"
duanes , RD. Rocksor

 

[twentyleagues]

I would definitely put hormones/pheromones up there. Along with decreased pH/gh/kh and tds whether up or in my case down.

 

[RD.]

Agreed. Nitrate readings are simply one easy way that is used as a gauge to assist one in keeping their overall tank parameters in check, between water changes.

Nitrate tests/levels are a good way for the average hobbyist to gauge the overall condition of their tank water, but there is sooooo much more to be considered if one is considering their complete aquarium water quality. This is where fresh water via water changes come into play, such as the overall bacteria count, the water alkalinity, which in turn can affect the pH, the TDS, conductivity, mineral levels, etc. So while reducing ones nitrate levels to zero may seem like a significant achievement, in and of itself, is it? I don't think so. I haven't bothered to check nitrate levels in any of my tanks in several decades. Water changes are always going to be important to the freshwater hobbyist.







Sucks that you have such a poor local water supply, but from the sounds of what you stated above nitrate levels would be the least of your concerns. For numerous reasons, marine set ups are an entirely different discussion.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Hormones and pheromones are certainly helped by water replacements, but activated carbon helps trap them betwwen those replacements so they can be diluted further by the replacements. It's quite helpful

 

[RD.]

Another part of the big equation....

I am assuming that you have also read the following article by Carl Strohmeyer.

Aquarium Redox Balance | Fish Health | Potential & Reduction | rH (americanaquariumproducts.com)

This portion is what I would base my success with over the years. " As often good aquatic husbandry is a major factor in a healthy Redox Potential (balance). "

Low stocking, high 02 levels, never overfeeding, regular large water changes, and regular cleaning of my filters. I have also been blessed with mineral rich water for most of my years of fishkeeping, but there are ways to cheaply resolve that if minerals are not naturally present.

 

[TwoHedWlf]

If I had left my 120 another few days until my nitrate reached about 20ppm, that would possibly be around the 2 week mark, which seems like an age between water changes, compared to what I'm used to anyway.

For me, doing them weekly is only partly about keeping the nitrates low. If were to try to do them every second week, or when the tests reach 20ppm I'd get out of the routine and probably end up doing them every second week, then 3rd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd, 8th week. But weekly? Every saturday, water change day. Almost never miss a day.

 

[duanes]

For me, alkalinity is another reliable barometer of what's going on within the invisible ingredients of the soup that is tank water, but may not work for some. If the tap water alkalinity (buffering capacity) is already low, it may be moot, (then a fluctuation (a crash) in pH may be the other alternative test).
When I lived in Wisconsin with Lake Michigan as my source water, tap alkalinity averaged 100ppm, so if my tank dropped to 50 or 60ppm alkalinity, soon after a water change, I took it as an indication either a filter needed to be cleaned, or I needed less time between water changes due to the growth of fish or some other matter.
But for me, drops in alkalinity almost always coincided with a spike in a nitrate test.
As you may have already surmised I am more anal the most about nitrate levels and try to keep them below 5ppm, so even a little dark color above 5ppm on an API test, prompts me to do a water change. One of my latest tank tests below.


On the other hand, I keep cichlids that have natural water nitrate levels that are undetectable with the tests I have available.
My normal water change schedule is 30-40% every other day.
And my tanks and sumps are heavily planted to soak any leftover nitrate the water changes don't get rid of, using both aquatic and terrestrial plants.

But ....... If I kept Anabantids or other swamp denizen species that came from more nutrient dense natural waters, my water change regime might be quite a bit more lax.
Because all tanks are in constant flux, nitrate tests just became part of my normal routine.
Just because after 2 months my nitrate level was 5 ppm, didn't mean it would be the same 6 months or a year down the road
I found keeping a log book was a great source for recognizing trends.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/i97/dstuer/Log%20Book/.highres/IMG_2645_zpscf09396b.jpg

 

[esoxlucius]

The whole nitrate situation seems quite a paradox. It gets bad press but isn't the big bad monster than we're led to believe. The incorrect, or sudden swing of PH, GH, KH, TDS with potentially stressful levels of hormones/pheromones thrown in for good measure too, all seem far more serious than the slow accumulative build up of nitrate.

 

[duanes]

I see Nitrate as an indicator, it is a barometer of the the culmination of all those other bugaboos.
It is an indication of what all those other mostly "untestable" organic compounds are doing.
If nitrate is low, so probably are the others.
If nitrate is high, so probably, are the others.
When I worked as a microbiologist in a drinking water plant
we used Coliforms bacteria as an indication of general contamination, and E coli to determine fecal contamination of drinking water,
(because Coliforms are present in the digestive tracts of all warm blooded animals).
If we test for generic coliform bacteria mid process (there are many species), and a sample tests positive, it means that drinking water may not be safe to consume at that point and, .a higher dose of chlorine or chloramine would be added to mitigate the situation.
If a test for E coli was used and that particular species of bacteria was present, we'd issued a boil order.
It would be too time consuming and inefficient to test for each species, and in the mean time bad water could get thru , so generic coliforms served the purpose as a fast efficient indicator.
Nitrate testing serves that purpose for the aquarist

 

[esoxlucius]

If nitrate is low, so probably are the others.
If nitrate is high, so probably, are the others.

To someone as anal as you regarding your water, and especially being an ex bio chemist, I bet using "probably" twice there irks you somewhat, lol. But how the hell can you measure everything that's going on? Like you say, we're left with nitrate as the crucial "gauge".

It would be interesting to see, if measurable, the correlation between all the "accumulatives". Do they indeed all build up at the same rate?

One instance I can think of, taking hormones/pheromones as an example, is in a tank where males are strutting their stuff and exuding god knows what chemicals from their horny bodies. I wonder if the elite aquarists amongst us up their water change regime at these times to compensate for this, and indeed use breeding behaviour as the "gauge", instead of nitrate.

Interesting stuff.