Nitrates 160ppm

[Coryloach]

And how did they come to the conclusion that it's the nitrate level that is toxic and not all the organic build up, which of course would lead to high nitrates...I am not sure if you understand what I am trying to explain but it's like to say that we humans get sick and die because of the increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere and not the pollution that leads to those....
Certain species of fish as I mentioned come from extremely clean waters void of any minerals, dissolved solids and organics. Nitrates is just part of the whole picture and not the most significant part of it as they are not as harmful to fish as others. But I am not saying they aren't completely harmless, especially not in high levels. I am saying they won't kill or affect fish to a certain level, the lethal being quite high, and that's what I first said to the OP, that 160ppm nitrates most likely haven't kill his 3 fish...

As for your ram example, when maintaining nitrate levels below 20ppm what you are actually doing is keeping the organic build up and harmful dissolved solids low. The nitrate itself is what you chose to use as an indicator for the others, but 20ppm nitrates will not affect your rams.
If you want to test it, keep your tank water extremely clean via regular and large water changes to keep the organics low, and dose just inorganic nitrate(from plant fertilizer) to 20-50ppm and come back and tell me that killed or affected your fish..... then we talk. There are plenty of high tech tanks that receive high amount of water changes, extreme maintainance which comes with keeping high tech tanks, heavily planted that provide very good water quality but combined with high levels of inorganic fertilizers nitrate being one of the most important and most heavily dosed...and they have thriving rams.

 

[Coryloach]

If maintainnce was not done properly how can it last for a year without any issue.

Build up is the cause. Maintenance should be done in a way to keep the water quality stable long term. My way to maintain that is with a TDS meter and a Kh test. My TDS and Kh almost don't differ from my tap water. I have tanks over 6 years not being reset.
If any of you have a TDS meter and a Kh test, do a test on your tap and your tank and compare. If you have any Kh difference and the TDS differs more than 40ppm, you haven't done enough of water changing. The change happens slowly, over months...How much it will change in different tanks depends on stocking level, feeding regime and of course maintenance.
And as you mentioned, fish maybe growing too. I have clown loaches and a pleco in one tank. Needless to say they've been growing steadily over the years and I removed the dither fish recently to keep the tank balanced.

 

[Bderick67]

The same theory would be behind drip acclimating. Ever heard of it?

Not sure how this applies. Do you believe that the fish would suffer some sort of shock from a quick drop in nitrates?

 

[Wailua Boy]

I think it does apply. The drop in nitrate can be stressful to more sensitive species(namely some saltwater species) What is more stressful is the temperature/Ph swings that come with the massive water changes.

 

[ragin_cajun]

but it's like to say that we humans get sick and die because of the increasing CO2 levels in the atmosphere and not the pollution that leads to those

Please...PLEASE....not a climate change argument...not here...

 

[Nim Dibbley]

How long were the dead fish in the tank? maybe the dead fish caused the nitrate spke? i assume you tested the water after you found the dead fish?

 

[jaws7777]

How long were the dead fish in the tank? maybe the dead fish caused the nitrate spke? i assume you tested the water after you found the dead fish?

Good point

 

[Drstrangelove]

I'm not aware of sudden nitrate deaths. 160 ppm is not lethal to many species and if so it takes quite a while. (That doesn't mean 160 ppm is good. It has bad long term affects at very high levels, especially for some species and for juveniles, but there are tons of controlled tests out there where 160 ppm is not going to produce rapid die off. I've seen tests using levels in the hundreds to generate die off effects, but again 160 ppm is well below those levels.)

Three dying all at once just sounds like something else. I would suspect another culprit, but your posts otherwise don't indicate another source.

I agree though that in the future, you would want to target a much lower nitrate level.

 

[Coryloach]

My way to maintain that is with a TDS meter and a Kh test. My TDS and Kh almost don't differ from my tap water. I have tanks over 6 years not being reset.

Today I decided to test one of my tanks, including nitrates which I normally don't bother with but for the sake of comparison...... The TDS difference between my tap and tank is 40ppm right now. The nitrate turned out below 10ppm judging by the colour. Now imagine if I had such build up so nitrates read 160ppm. The TDS of the tank would be through the roof in comparison to tap water. For me it's a lot easier to test TDS(the test actually tests conductivity) than to bother shaking nitrate bottles... And spending money on repeat tests...
I've never targeted nitrates as such, not in years, but as you can see mine are in what others think "safety" level and I've tested this tank for nitrates twice in 3 years....(besides today)


TDS of tap water:


TDS of tank water:


Nitrate test:

 

[ShadowP]

As for your ram example,... ... and dose just inorganic nitrate(from plant fertilizer) to 20-50ppm and come back and tell me that killed or affected your fish..... then we talk. There are plenty of high tech tanks that receive high amount of water changes, extreme maintainance which comes with keeping high tech tanks, heavily planted that provide very good water quality but combined with high levels of inorganic fertilizers nitrate being one of the most important and most heavily dosed...and they have thriving rams.

Now we talk...
I am an avid supporter of undergravel filtration systems; even with live plants - just a much deeper gravel bed to do so.
I've been in this hobby since 1972. I've used Mars Plant Tabs MANY MANY times in the past without any problems whatsoever until recently when they were gifted last year as a promo with another purchase at my favorite lfs.
I placed 6 tablets in the gravels as directed and to my horror they began disintegrating within a minute or two. Ammonia and nitrite stayed at zero. Nitrate however, spiked to slightly over 240 (best guess using 1 part distilled and 1 part tank water mix for test measurement and doubling the result).
I lost the following in less than 5 minutes...

4 pygmy corydoras & 4 electric blue rams.

The Mars Co had changed their formulae for their tabs and failed to add a warning to the label against using them with undergravel filtration systems.
Without undergravel filtration, the product breaks apart into a fine substate and STAYS IN THE GRAVEL WITH NO RESULTANT HIGH SPIKE OF THE NITRATES.
Their "new" mix DOES NOT ADD ANY ORGANICS to the gravel bed.

The Mars Co Resident Customer Complaint "expert" (my ***) was trying to explain to me how I shouldn't be using undergravel filtration because as he put it... "they are obsolete because they don't have a powerhead to control the water flow more precisely" Needless to say, I got nowhere with their (it's not our fault for not warning you... it's your fault, because nobody uses undergravel filters anymore)

REALLY??? THEY'RE STILL SELLING THEM, AREN'T THEY?

I am quite certain (though not absolutely positive) that the tank sources you referenced do not utilize undergravel filters, and that being the case, it is safe to have a much higher nitrate/fertilizer level in the gravel where the plant roots can gather it up most efficiently. But there is a warning that comes with many gravel bed fertilizers... disturb the gravel bed as little as possible. Hmm... I wonder why?