NLS ingredient change ?
- Thread starter jaws7777
- Start date
WTF are you talking about? Just another classic example of someone with zero experience in the actual manufacture of commercial food, using their internet gleaned wisdom to spout non factual information.
These are whole foods, collected from the ocean, and are immediately processed on board the multimillion dollar ships that collect them. The following company is one of the largest suppliers of krill meal in the world.
http://www.worldfishing.net/news101/shipyardsrepairers/ship-design/akers-new-krill-vessel
These same ships also process a portion of what they collect for krill oil, and/or raw frozen. Different processes, for different markets, all done on board the same ships.
http://www.efeedlink.com/contents/09-22-2008/b93a6a43-c3e8-442c-a863-fa947faa8387-a001.html
Now some time for some common sense........
Dry food is made from dry ingredients. It's that simple. One doesn't start up the grinders etc and start mixing a multitude of dry raw ingredients, and then add blocks of frozen fish. The term "wet weight" in regards to fish food was probably first coined by yours truly, approx. 15 years ago. At the time I was referring to Dennis Crews from Omega, who used a non typical process to manufacture his raw ingredients, which were collected locally as processing plant leftovers. He was actually paid to take them away - wet. He could do that as the processing scraps were free, and they were all local - as in no shipping involved. This same marketing and labeling tactic had been used in commercial dog/cat foods for years, and with Denny's marketing background with Tetra it didn't take him long to figure out how well this could work in the fish food trade.
But to think that a company that is based in North America, would have blocks of frozen fish shipped to their site, to then process along with their dry raw ingredients, is ludicrous. Hmmmm, let's see shall we have dry Antarctic krill meal shipped from Norway, or pay 20+ times the price to ship frozen flesh and water. Think about it. Even someone who knows nothing about the process can do the math. No one, and I mean no one in the biz is paying for frozen blocks of krill to be used in their dry fish food.
So if for whatever reason New Life decided to drop herring, and REPLACE the herring content with MORE krill, then you would still have the same amount of wheat as prior to the change. In fact there could possibly be less wheat, depending on the current % of krill. Is more krill, and less herring, a bad thing? I guess that depends how strongly one feels about the difference between the two raw ingredients. Now that would be a something to get worked up about, or at least the foundation of a discussion. Personally I can see both pros, and cons.
And this is not me defending New Life, or this specific change. If you have a beef about them dropping herring that would at least be a legitimate complaint, and one that I could personally understand - but to think that the krill being used is somehow in a wet state, therefore pushing wheat as the main ingredient, is just plain stupid.
And Frank, while that may not have been your intent, like usual on forums such as this, hysteria often is the result, just look at some of the comments in this thread.
I was going to reach out and post back here with more info, but honestly I can't be bothered.
Good luck.
On my NLS Thera+A the first three ingredients are: Whole Antarctic krill, whole fish, whole wheat flower. Its my first tub however so I don't know if the ingredients have changed. Before NLS I fed an assortment of hikari pellets.. 
This was the first had I had heard of any changes, so this was a useful thread for me; not that I'm losing sleep over it but good to know.
Exactly im not wearing a tinfoil hat hiding under my bed because of this but i see nothing wrong with with discusssing this. I was hoping that i would have gotten a ton of replies say " i just picked some up and the ingredients are the same" My kids dogs wife and myself all eat things we arent supposed to why should the fish be any different lol
@RD
i was hoping to get your opinion on what the rep said. I could just pm it you though.
Im giving them the benefit of the doubt as the convo went gold when i started to ask specifically about the absence of the herring or fish maybe they went home for the day.
@RD
i was hoping to get your opinion on what the rep said. I could just pm it you though.
Im giving them the benefit of the doubt as the convo went gold when i started to ask specifically about the absence of the herring or fish maybe they went home for the day.
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RD, Glad to see you have not lost your edge.
Thanks for the explanation on the krill. It was helpful.
If any other company had dropped herring or "whole fish" from their formula I somehow suspect your response towards that company would be much different.
As for contacting the manufacturer to answer the questions, NLS has never been forthcoming in responding to general public requests of this nature. Otherwise the initial post on my site would have never occurred. I could have asked NLS. But when you get a name change (New Life International becomes the company name, "Spectrum" becomes the name of the food), the labels start changing, the web site goes down, and then products start appearing with a different formula that may not meet the high standards of the company, some measure of concern is justified. Enough to at least be observant.
As for interpreting ingredient labels, not all of us have spent time as insiders. All we have are the naming conventions to be used. "Salmon" or "Whole Salmon" is interpreted as a Wet Ingredient. Salmon Meal or "Whole Salmon Meal" is interpreted as a Dry Ingredient. Whole Herring is interpreted as a Wet Ingredient and "Whole Herring Meal" is interpreted as a dry one.... at least in the dog food world, where particular attention was first paid to the legal nuances of ingredient labeling (and where I learned about "wet weight".) It's also where my interest in attempting to interpret ingredient labels originates.
Thanks for the explanation on the krill. It was helpful.
If any other company had dropped herring or "whole fish" from their formula I somehow suspect your response towards that company would be much different.
As for contacting the manufacturer to answer the questions, NLS has never been forthcoming in responding to general public requests of this nature. Otherwise the initial post on my site would have never occurred. I could have asked NLS. But when you get a name change (New Life International becomes the company name, "Spectrum" becomes the name of the food), the labels start changing, the web site goes down, and then products start appearing with a different formula that may not meet the high standards of the company, some measure of concern is justified. Enough to at least be observant.
As for interpreting ingredient labels, not all of us have spent time as insiders. All we have are the naming conventions to be used. "Salmon" or "Whole Salmon" is interpreted as a Wet Ingredient. Salmon Meal or "Whole Salmon Meal" is interpreted as a Dry Ingredient. Whole Herring is interpreted as a Wet Ingredient and "Whole Herring Meal" is interpreted as a dry one.... at least in the dog food world, where particular attention was first paid to the legal nuances of ingredient labeling (and where I learned about "wet weight".) It's also where my interest in attempting to interpret ingredient labels originates.
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That's right, I still have a very low tolerance for BS.
I never said that concern isn't justified, or that a discussion about this couldn't be useful. Obviously it is, I just provided some very useful information for those that didn't understand the logistics of importing massive quantities of krill into the USA, or how the term "wet weight" came about. But while discussing it, no need for one to talk out of their arse. Fair enough? As a forum owner you should be getting your facts straight before going off on a tirade. That would be the responsible way to conduct yourself online, on your forum, and others.
Antarctic krill is most certainly a high quality ingredient. My response to this would be no different no matter who the manufacturer is. As stated previously, personally I can see both pros, and cons. I didn't give this a green light, or wave a flag of approval. So far I have only been cleaning up the trail of nonsense being posted.
And FYI - New Life International has been the company name since the 1990's when he began making his line of food. Prior to that his live fish company was named New Life Exotic Fish Inc. I guess you missed that? As far as labels, I have personally seen, and been part of, several label changes over the past 15 years. Back in the day I helped edit some of them. And it's also not the first time that the website has been taken offline, and revamped, either. This is a family owned & operated business, Pablo (Pres/owner), Ian (Vice Pres), and Donna (office manager) - and some factory workers that work in production and packing of the food. There are no sales reps, marketing reps, or people that can spend 8 hours a day answering phone calls & emails from hundreds/thousands of customers. I understand that to some people that may not be satisfactory, but if they hired more staff just for that purpose, and raised the cost of the food to cover those costs, I doubt that anyone would be happy, either.
Discuss, debate, hate, whatever, but let's keep things real. Misinformation doesn't help anyone.
I never said that concern isn't justified, or that a discussion about this couldn't be useful. Obviously it is, I just provided some very useful information for those that didn't understand the logistics of importing massive quantities of krill into the USA, or how the term "wet weight" came about. But while discussing it, no need for one to talk out of their arse. Fair enough? As a forum owner you should be getting your facts straight before going off on a tirade. That would be the responsible way to conduct yourself online, on your forum, and others.
Antarctic krill is most certainly a high quality ingredient. My response to this would be no different no matter who the manufacturer is. As stated previously, personally I can see both pros, and cons. I didn't give this a green light, or wave a flag of approval. So far I have only been cleaning up the trail of nonsense being posted.
And FYI - New Life International has been the company name since the 1990's when he began making his line of food. Prior to that his live fish company was named New Life Exotic Fish Inc. I guess you missed that? As far as labels, I have personally seen, and been part of, several label changes over the past 15 years. Back in the day I helped edit some of them. And it's also not the first time that the website has been taken offline, and revamped, either. This is a family owned & operated business, Pablo (Pres/owner), Ian (Vice Pres), and Donna (office manager) - and some factory workers that work in production and packing of the food. There are no sales reps, marketing reps, or people that can spend 8 hours a day answering phone calls & emails from hundreds/thousands of customers. I understand that to some people that may not be satisfactory, but if they hired more staff just for that purpose, and raised the cost of the food to cover those costs, I doubt that anyone would be happy, either.
Discuss, debate, hate, whatever, but let's keep things real. Misinformation doesn't help anyone.
[QUOTE="RD., post: 7440599, member: 20045"
This is a family owned & operated business, Pablo (Pres/owner), Ian (Vice Pres), and Donna (office manager) - and some factory workers that work in production and packing of the food.[/QUOTE]
I was unaware of that. My comment about speaking to a rep was inaccurate. I just assumed it was a rep.
On a side note i did a quick glance of the other foods mentioned in this thread and wasnt impressed. The intent wasnt to have a fod fight
This is a family owned & operated business, Pablo (Pres/owner), Ian (Vice Pres), and Donna (office manager) - and some factory workers that work in production and packing of the food.[/QUOTE]
I was unaware of that. My comment about speaking to a rep was inaccurate. I just assumed it was a rep.
On a side note i did a quick glance of the other foods mentioned in this thread and wasnt impressed. The intent wasnt to have a fod fight
I hope it stays a family owned business, producing the same quality products they are known for. My mention of the lack of response from NLS was only a response to your question "Why not ask the manufacturer?" Is it a criticism? Certainly. Is it understandable. Absolutely.
Krill is certainly a preferred ingredient. Preferred over any fish meal in my opinion. The only question with the removal of "Whole Herring Meal" or "Whole Fish Meal" from a formula is how did that affect the ratio of preferred proteins to non-preferred. According to the labels, the protein content of the food only declined by a percentage point while fiber increased by a point. I've never paid attention to these numbers between different batches but this would seem to be normal fluctuation, especially considering we are talking "minimum" and "maximum"..... and especially considering prior comments you've made about labels being used until exhausted, regardless of the actual formula of the product. The new recipe also contains Seaweed, Kelp, Alfalfa, and and Mollusk, which are not listed in the prior ingredient label. All of which contribute to the "Minimum Protein" published on the label. "Ash" remains unchanged, which is a bit of a head scratcher to me. You would think that with the removal of Herring meal the ash number would decrease or increase. From what I understand, Krill Meal contains about 15% Ash and Herring Meal about 9% ash. If herring was removed and the content of Krill increased, you would think the Ash content would increase. However, since Whole Wheat has such a low Ash content (between 0.5% and 1.5%), increasing Wheat content in conjunction with increasing Krill content would compensate for increased Ash resulting from replacing a percentage of the Herring Meal with Krill Meal. But then again, since it's a "Max" number, any actual increase or decrease may not be represented. And I have not considered the effects of "Seaweed, Kelp, Alfalfa, and and Mollusk" on the Ash content.
Jaws7777... In my opinion, when it comes to pelleted fish foods, there is Northfin, NLS, and then everyone else looking up. Or you go with a quality base gel product and add your own ingredients.
Krill is certainly a preferred ingredient. Preferred over any fish meal in my opinion. The only question with the removal of "Whole Herring Meal" or "Whole Fish Meal" from a formula is how did that affect the ratio of preferred proteins to non-preferred. According to the labels, the protein content of the food only declined by a percentage point while fiber increased by a point. I've never paid attention to these numbers between different batches but this would seem to be normal fluctuation, especially considering we are talking "minimum" and "maximum"..... and especially considering prior comments you've made about labels being used until exhausted, regardless of the actual formula of the product. The new recipe also contains Seaweed, Kelp, Alfalfa, and and Mollusk, which are not listed in the prior ingredient label. All of which contribute to the "Minimum Protein" published on the label. "Ash" remains unchanged, which is a bit of a head scratcher to me. You would think that with the removal of Herring meal the ash number would decrease or increase. From what I understand, Krill Meal contains about 15% Ash and Herring Meal about 9% ash. If herring was removed and the content of Krill increased, you would think the Ash content would increase. However, since Whole Wheat has such a low Ash content (between 0.5% and 1.5%), increasing Wheat content in conjunction with increasing Krill content would compensate for increased Ash resulting from replacing a percentage of the Herring Meal with Krill Meal. But then again, since it's a "Max" number, any actual increase or decrease may not be represented. And I have not considered the effects of "Seaweed, Kelp, Alfalfa, and and Mollusk" on the Ash content.
Jaws7777... In my opinion, when it comes to pelleted fish foods, there is Northfin, NLS, and then everyone else looking up. Or you go with a quality base gel product and add your own ingredients.
