NLS switch...Guarantee...document daily.

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Dan Feller;4938846; said:
Interesting thread!

I am a little curious why you would feed one or the other? It seems like it would be better to feed a variety of foods rather than just one.

I currently feed my cichlids NLS Cichlid Formula, NLS Growth Formula, Hikari Cichlid-Gold, Hikari Cichlid-Excel, Hikari Sinking Wafers, and O.S.I. Spirulina Flake every day.

There is no reason to feed a variety of foods as long as the food you are feeding is complete and balanced. NLS, and many others, are designed to be complete foods, meaning they use a variety of ingredients in their formulations to meet all nutritional requirements for your fish. Thus, feeding these foods is equivalent to feeding a varied diet.
 
calioutlaw1a;4939755; said:
There is no reason to feed a variety of foods as long as the food you are feeding is complete and balanced. NLS, and many others, are designed to be complete foods, meaning they use a variety of ingredients in their formulations to meet all nutritional requirements for your fish. Thus, feeding these foods is equivalent to feeding a varied diet.

I guess this would be true if you believe that any one food is "complete".

Frankly, I don't, and that's why I have always fed my fish a wide variety of foods. Besides the dry foods I mentioned I also feed fresh and frozen foods. I just don't believe that one brand of pellet is ever going to be as nutritious as a variety of foods.

Maybe I'm being overly skeptical, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

Sorry for the derail, it will be interesting to see if Joel notices any significant differences in the health/growth of his fish on NLS versus Omega One.
 
Dan Feller;4939882; said:
I guess this would be true if you believe that any one food is "complete".

Frankly, I don't, and that's why I have always fed my fish a wide variety of foods. Besides the dry foods I mentioned I also feed fresh and frozen foods. I just don't believe that one brand of pellet is ever going to be as nutritious as a variety of foods.

Maybe I'm being overly skeptical, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

Sorry for the derail, it will be interesting to see if Joel notices any significant differences in the health/growth of his fish on NLS versus Omega One.

No derail, exactly my point of this experiment/thread. I was told that in order to see the full benefit of what NLS can do (guaranteed no less) I would need to feed this to them exclusively. That is the reason for the kinda boring, but thorough documentation. I too thought that the more variety, the better. Someone who is very knowledgable (and has done MUCH more research on not only fish, but foods in general, than me) recommended that I give it a shot. NLS guarantees results. I wanted to see these results and put that to the test.

I fed them for about 2 minutes straight today right before my weekly water change. I fed tiny amounts at a time. Hardly any went to the substrate this time and I watched ALL fish getting some food. They seem to realize the physocal properties of the NLS v. the O1 and have adjusted how they eat accordingly. Half of them wait mid level for the pellets to drop. No I can get back to the feeding amounts that I was at before. Their aggression is subdued this evening as I am typing this. Chasing as usual, but less intensity as I saw earlier. I imaginbe they were hungry after almost a week of reduced amounts (per recommendation) I have noticed more of them eating on the algae I grow on purpose in the tank. That's cool because they are getting that variety with a natural source.

Here is the thread with a vid of the tank taken last night:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4937899#post4937899
 
Dan Feller;4939882; said:
I guess this would be true if you believe that any one food is "complete".

Frankly, I don't, and that's why I have always fed my fish a wide variety of foods. Besides the dry foods I mentioned I also feed fresh and frozen foods. I just don't believe that one brand of pellet is ever going to be as nutritious as a variety of foods.

Maybe I'm being overly skeptical, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

Sorry for the derail, it will be interesting to see if Joel notices any significant differences in the health/growth of his fish on NLS versus Omega One.

I don't believe there is anything in hikari not found in NLS that my fish would benefit from. Certainly not "dried bakery product" or MSG. I think NLS is as close to "complete" as anything on the market. I don't see any problem feeding fresh food, but some frozen food I know to be debatable on it's nutrition values.

Dan, Justin also recently switched to NLS from omega1 for his S. maps, and I would say he almost wanted the NLS not to work (;))... But it definitely worked, he had great results, and he is feeding NLS exclusively now, I believe.

To the OP, like I stated earlier, I don't think you're gonna notice anything "remarkable." For a rough comparison (not the best I admit), a person that eats an incredibly healthy diet doesn't look that different from anyone else, they just look good and healthy, which is how your fish will look on NLS, IME.

I think R.D. is gonna find this thread at some point and enlighten us further on some NLS facts. :grinno:
 
RD is actually the one who inspired the thread/experiment and I am pretty sure he has watching the whole time. The biggest kicker for me was the fact that the Mbuna Protein/bloat issue is not as cut and dry as I thought it was. This is what has gotten me to loosen the grip on what I feed my fellas.
 
NLS is a good food, but to say it is the be all end all of food is just hubris on the part of the food maker.

Just a counter example I brought up before: I fed NLS wafers, and had Royal plecos die on me; it is not after I supplement my feeding scheme with wood and fresh veggies that I had success keeping them. I don't fault NLS, it still is a good wafer food and my plecos still eat them(so does my SDs); but I do not trust it to provide EVERYTHING my fancy plecos need.
 
aclockworkorange;4940924; said:
I don't believe there is anything in hikari not found in NLS that my fish would benefit from. Certainly not "dried bakery product" or MSG. I think NLS is as close to "complete" as anything on the market. I don't see any problem feeding fresh food, but some frozen food I know to be debatable on it's nutrition values.

Dan, Justin also recently switched to NLS from omega1 for his S. maps, and I would say he almost wanted the NLS not to work (;))... But it definitely worked, he had great results, and he is feeding NLS exclusively now, I believe.

To the OP, like I stated earlier, I don't think you're gonna notice anything "remarkable." For a rough comparison (not the best I admit), a person that eats an incredibly healthy diet doesn't look that different from anyone else, they just look good and healthy, which is how your fish will look on NLS, IME.

I think R.D. is gonna find this thread at some point and enlighten us further on some NLS facts. :grinno:

My intent was only to question the benefits of feeding a variety of foods versus only one particular product.

I didn't mean to start any sort of "Hikari versus NLS" debate on this thread, it's been done to the point of flogging a dead horse. If you go to that ridiculously long thread it is obvious that it is more a matter of personal preference/prejudice than any real difference in the ability of either brand to raise quality fish. :nilly: What I find very interesting is the polarization you see on this subject. Why do so many people find it necessary to choose sides? In the immortal words of Rodney King "Can we all get along?" :ROFL:
 
I hope you don't mind me posting in this, Joe .......

I fed NLS wafers, and had Royal plecos die on me; it is not after I supplement my feeding scheme with wood and fresh veggies that I had success keeping them. I don't fault NLS, it still is a good wafer food and my plecos still eat them(so does my SDs); but I do not trust it to provide EVERYTHING my fancy plecos need.

Yet I know countless numbers of people who feed NLS to their plecos with zero issues, including an SA importer in my area, who feeds thousands of wild caught plecos NLS on a regular basis. (no veggies ever) A local hobbyist (and a sponsor/vendor here on MFK) has several wild caught "fancy" plecos in one of his 550 gallon show tanks, all in the 10-12" range, and none of them have ever seen, let alone eaten any type of fresh vegetable.

Having said that I will admit that some wild plecos (such as panaques) may in fact do better with fresh veggies added to their diet, only because in some cases they will consume them with more vigor. That becomes a case by case situation that each hobbyist has to make a call on. From a nutrient standpoint they certainly don't require fresh veggies, and they most certainly don't require wood in their diet as most people believe.

I have been telling people for many years that panaques etc. don't eat wood for it's nutrient value, or for digestibility, they eat it as a secondary action when scraping the biofilm that grows on the wood.

Just recently there is now science to back that up.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co....ome_catfish_really_eat_wood?&utm_content=html

Based on recent publications by Donovan German and his coauthors, it seems that they are not digesting the wood as was speculated in previous papers by Nelson and coauthors. They don't seem to have a gut anatomy designed to support the microorganisms that would be needed to break down the wood and, like other loricariids, have a very fast gut passage time.

The reality is a wild caught pleco (which most "fancy plecos are) can die in captivity from numerous factors besides their diet. It could be due to how they were collected & handled, their overall condition of when they were collected, such as having internal parasites/pathogens etc (as many do) or even just the stress of living in captivity. Even with a proper necropsy performed it's not always a clear cut case of what a fish died from, yet you want to point the finger at their diet? Okay, fine, but I beg to differ. I too have kept my fair share of fancy plecos, and never had any die from malnutrition when feeding NLS.



My intent was only to question the benefits of feeding a variety of foods versus only one particular product.

Dan, I would suggest that you go back to that ridiculously long thread that you mentioned, and actually read what I posted about variety. That should clear things up for you. I also have no problem with anyone having their own personal preference as to what they feed, but please don't attempt to tell me that feeding ingredients such as corn flakes, dried bakery products, alpha starch, soybean meal, rice bran, gluten meal and MSG are adding any type of quality of variety to a fishes diet.
That's where the whole "variety is the spice of life" logic goes right out the window.

And not to worry about this topic becoming ridiculously long, I don't plan on going 'round & 'round about any of this. I'm personally getting tired of banging my head against a wall.

Best of luck with your fish, Joe.
 
RD.;4941439; said:
I hope you don't mind me posting in this, Joe .......

Of course not, I have the utmost respect for the time you take to share the knowledge you have. I think it should be clear to anyone who is actually intelligent that you have more knowledge about aquatic life and their diets than most of us combined.

I am going to go ahead and concede now. My wife (not me, i was going to be neutral until the 30 days was up) said that one of the fish looked much more vibrant and had some yellow in it, which had not been the case over a week ago. Maybe it's my water changes, but those have not changed since I have had these guys. Maybe it's maturity, but they are all over 2 years old? Hmmm.....
 
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