No love for check valves?

[Jc1119]

" I suppose the perfect setup would be a check valve AND a syphon break, because the chances of them both failing at once would be extremely rare. However if I had to run one OR the other, I would not be at all comfortable with a check valve without a break for backup." quote frnchjeep

I suppose this is what I'm trying to achieve. The perfect setup. I ve always used siphon breaks, but it just seems that if your going to spend a few hundred bucks to plumb a system, throwing a $25 check on there wouldn't really hurt anything. And like you said, the chances if both failing would be extremely rare. I like that insurance.

 

[Joe M]

I always keep my siphon breaks underwater about an 8th of an inch so they aren't constantly spewing water everywhere. The breaks are in the overflow, so it only drains about a quart of water before it sucks air. Like I said, I has one clog last week, about 2 weeks after i removed my plumbing and removed algae on the pvc.
Thats why they are sucking debris and clogging.

I actually clean all of my filters on a routine, as well as check my plumbing parts. I don't really need a visual cue for any of my maintenance.
You realize that if you got rid of the check valve, there wouldn't be anything mechanical in your plumbing, and there wouldn't ever be a need to take it apart again?/QUOTE]

I realize that, but its not enough of a nuisance to do away with them. My 125 uses the AGA megaflows and kits. The holes are designed to be right at the water level, but mine are slightly under for some reason. I actually prefer it this way. I believe AGA did a very good job designing those kits. I take apart the returns every month to clean my pump and impeller anyway, so the check valves amount to about 30 more seconds of work to check and clean.

To each his own I guess. I have no doubts that your way works great, but its just not for me. Plus I've gone to greater measures than check valves to avoid water damage to my floors. My entire stand is watertight and can hold over 30 gallons of water in a disaster scenario.

I like safety nets.

 

[frnchjeep]

I suppose this is what I'm trying to achieve. The perfect setup. I ve always used siphon breaks, but it just seems that if your going to spend a few hundred bucks to plumb a system, throwing a $25 check on there wouldn't really hurt anything. And like you said, the chances if both failing would be extremely rare. I like that insurance.

I realize that, but its not enough of a nuisance to do away with them. My 125 uses the AGA megaflows and kits. The holes are designed to be right at the water level, but mine are slightly under for some reason. I actually prefer it this way. I believe AGA did a very good job designing those kits. I take apart the returns every month to clean my pump and impeller anyway, so the check valves amount to about 30 more seconds of work to check and clean.

To each his own I guess. I have no doubts that your way works great, but its just not for me. Plus I've gone to greater measures than check valves to avoid water damage to my floors. My entire stand is watertight and can hold over 30 gallons of water in a disaster scenario.
Now thats piece of mind. haha I've never heard of that before, but it makes sense. It must also make it easier when you are pulling filter pads and whatnot out of the sump, you don't have to worry about dripping in the stand or anything.
I like safety nets.

I hope you guys don't think I'm talkin ****. I'm just saying that I don't like to rely on mechanical parts if I don't have to. I'm an auto tech by trade, and I see mechanical parts fail for no reason all day, every day. With my plumbing, I strongly believe in the K.I.S.S. method. If there aren't any mechanical parts, there isn't anything to break, to stick, to fail. I would be ok with using one as a backup, but I haven't had a reason to.

Another factor is that everyone sets up their plumbing a little differently. What works for me in my system might not work for you in your setup and vice versa. I think we've all had a little trial and error to get where we are now.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used two check valves in line, so if the first one fails, the second one will catch it? Redundancy is even extra piece of mind.

 

[Jc1119]

I hope you guys don't think I'm talkin ****. I'm just saying that I don't like to rely on mechanical parts if I don't have to. I'm an auto tech by trade, and I see mechanical parts fail for no reason all day, every day. With my plumbing, I strongly believe in the K.I.S.S. method. If there aren't any mechanical parts, there isn't anything to break, to stick, to fail. I would be ok with using one as a backup, but I haven't had a reason to.

Another factor is that everyone sets up their plumbing a little differently. What works for me in my system might not work for you in your setup and vice versa. I think we've all had a little trial and error to get where we are now.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used two check valves in line, so if the first one fails, the second one will catch it? Redundancy is even extra piece of mind.

Don't think you're talking **** at all. I like to hear how other folks setup their systemsbecause there's always more than one way to go about it.

Two in line is interesting. Never tried it, but other than a slight reduction in flow, I dont see why it wouldn't work. Siphon break and 2 checks in line. Now that's bulletproof!! Might have to try it on my next build.....

 

[Joe M]

Yeah I didn't take anything you said as anything other than just telling us why you don't use them. I found a few that I like from my home depot that when open a flap on a hinge goes to the side. I like them much better than the ones that have the sliding mechanism in the middle to stop water. Less chance of getting clogged.

I never thought about 2 in succession. That would probably work even better.

I love the fact that I don't have to worry about water in my stand. When I had my siphon break fail as I said earlier, I lost a good amount of water, and I actually used a small pump to pump it out of the stand. The carpet and floor around the tank was bone dry the entire time.

 

[JamesF]

The problem with check valves usually comes to people doing plumbing for the first time. They read about check valves, think they`re 100% foolproof, and set up their system with the check valve as their only prevention against a flood.
I don`t personally use them. With three kids I need maintenance time to be kept to a minimum. Adding equipment that is unneccessary that needs maintenance just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[fox3]

Why stop at two

My take is whatever floats yer boat. I have no need for them and in over 8 years never had a siphon break fail.

Thing is I have never seen a person who does not use a CV come on start a post and promptly criticize a person for using one but actually the reverse is true. I think "some" dost protest too much and need to justify using one.

If one feels the need to use a CV to sleep better at night or for POM by all means use one, no one here is saying otherwise. What I hear them saying is they have no use for one with their plumbing techniques. Not because a CV is gonna fail.

Not a flame just an opinion.

 

[nfored]

I only used one once on my return line, and the reason is not what you think, and it was only temporary. When I built my system the return line was drilled about 1" below the lowest level of the drain.

I had a hole drilled in the top of the return line, to break the siphon, this worked just fine but, it filled the sump up to much for me to be happy about. So i put a check valve in until I could redo my sump.

After redoing my sump I have no reason for check valves the sump could handle the back siphon which is something all of our sumps should be setup to do imho.

 

[Jc1119]

Why stop at two

My take is whatever floats yer boat. I have no need for them and in over 8 years never had a siphon break fail.

Thing is I have never seen a person who does not use a CV come on start a post and promptly criticize a person for using one but actually the reverse is true. I think "some" dost protest too much and need to justify using one.

If one feels the need to use a CV to sleep better at night or for POM by all means use one, no one here is saying otherwise. What I hear them saying is they have no use for one with their plumbing techniques. Not because a CV is gonna fail.

Not a flame just an opinion.

And an opinion I value very much. I've personally seen 3 different threads lately that had the " because they fail " logic thrown out at those who do use them. Instead of singling out the poster and derailing the thread, I just thought it would make for a good discussion. Reef central is even worse. They act like you re stupid if you do use one. By no means am I saying you must use one for a bulletproof setup, but I have and do and probably will continue to....

But like you said, whatever floats yer boat. I like hearing the other side of the argument because if your way works for you, so be it. To each his own

Good discussion..

 

[Jc1119]

The problem with check valves usually comes to people doing plumbing for the first time. They read about check valves, think they`re 100% foolproof, and set up their system with the check valve as their only prevention against a flood.
I don`t personally use them. With three kids I need maintenance time to be kept to a minimum. Adding equipment that is unneccessary that needs maintenance just doesn't make sense to me.

I come from the other side of the equation. Years ago I worked for plumbing distributor and when I built my first wet dry I talked to alot of plumbers about how I should go about setting up. Check valves are used in lots of different plumbing situations so I kind of inherited the use of them by default. I've sold so many in my time that it's just a normal part of a setup.

I totally understand keeping maintenance to a minimum with a family as well. Problem for me is I travel ALOT so my wife is doing water changes while I'm gone and I've had more than one panicked phone call asking " why is water all over the carpet" from something a non-fish person(aka my wife) has inadvertently done. For my situation, redundancy is a way of life.