No more fish/ the future

[Deadliestviper7]

Hello; Two points I wish to make. One is about this quote. I personally do not have any problems with it, but if it is from a religious text you are venturing into restricted topic territory. I am not a Mod so no worries from me, but if you want the thread to last????

The other is you reference greed a couple of times and money. You lay blame on these two things. I will give one example of an environmental problem not very much in that category. The slash and burn of the amazon jungle by very poor native people. A man with a family needs to feed his family so he cuts down and burns a few acres of jungle. He grows plenty of crops for a few years. Soon the land is used up so ha cuts and burns a few more acres and so on and so on.
The problem is the nature of the jungle ecology. Being a warm humid climate all year the jungle very quickly decays dead organic matter and cycles it back into living tissues. The soil does not build up much and is not very deep nor robust. Soil is quickly depleted once the overgrowth is cut way.

It is not my thread but if I were to pick a big problem for animal and plant habitats it would be the large human population with habitat destruction as a theme. Some due to greed and money for sure but also just sheer numbers.

If he kept the forest he wouldn't have to worry, many foods in the forest, it's a matter of ignorance.

We live in a world fast approaching 10 billion people, yet the people breed like convict cichlids , blind to their own actions.
Here's the thing: the world can only sustain about 5 billion long term at most, so humans are going to suffer a die off of some sort, indefinite upwards population trends do not exist, and humans are not exempt to this law of nature.

Since we don't seem to be willing to self-police our populations , something else will likely do it, wether it be famine,war, plague, water shortages etc
What is sown is what shall be reaped, and the harvest shall be bitter

 

[BIG-G]

If the numbers are accurate some scientists predict 10 billion is the supportable limit.
Looks like we’re in trouble. I found this counter that estimate the worlds population. Scary but interesting.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

 

[Deadliestviper7]

If the numbers are accurate some scientists predict 10 billion is the supportable limit.
Looks like we’re in trouble. I found this counter that estimate the worlds population. Scary but interesting.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

No way in hell we could support ten billion, even with better distribution, the problem isn't just enviormental, but also mental, at higher population densities our mental attitudes start to deteriorate, it become a group behavioral sink, if you will

 

[JK47]

"And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in, you defiled my land and made my heritage an abomination."

This is not acceptable on MFK, leave it off the site please.

 

[Copper2]

MFK people I spent some time in another post discussing treatment of large fish, namely the Arapaima. One thing I like about MFK forums whether I agree or not with other members it get's you thinking.
It's one thing to mistreat fish or any animal. But one thing I firmly believe is that mistreating an ecosystem is far more important.
We know what the bankers can do to this world (depressions etc.). They can also eat up what forest is left.
It's always greed and money that seems to attack the earth.

https://news.mongabay.com/2019/02/a...to-firms-linked-to-deforestation-study-finds/

What do you think this world will be like in 2 generations?

• Most large predictors extinct or threatened?
• 3rd world forest nations practically deforested?
• No more amphibians?

Thanks for making me think.
I hope MFK members around the world will also read this. I am getting towards retirement. Glad to see the world before all the wildlife is destroyed and only kept in pens and refuges. Sad to see what has happened.
Sad for future generations. Hope they can fix this. Sorry we gave them these problems.

Reminiscing about how we’re enjoying the last good times isn’t helping. It’s kind of like taking an expensive painting and enjoying it and then slashing it up and giving it to your kids saying “sorry I enjoyed it, but I went nuts for a moment.” Otherwise a good important post.

Here’s the truth: Without frogs and big predators we are dead meat literally. There’s a reason there’s so many species of animals and plants and we’re not exempt from the circle of life. Action is needed.

People are dumb sometimes. They think humans ruin everything and we’re bad. We do ruin everything and that’s because that’s our purpose in the ecosystem. I know it’s very surprising, but think about it: do you realize how many species wouldn’t exist if humans disappeared? Natural ecosystems aren’t natural if your definition of natural is how something was before humans ruined it. Almost every ecosystem has been sculpted by humans- many of these manmade ecosystems we are now trying to save and preserve yet we say they’re natural. Humans are rash, but no other species has such impacts and one could say it’s because we are supposed to manage the earth- if we manage it badly things go badly.

We can rebuild our ecosystems and species communities. It’s just people have become lazy- they say they’re busy, they don’t have enough money, they don’t give a crap. They say human ecosystems are never natural- I say they kind of remind me of a moron! Not enough people care and if there’s a growing population I only want people who do care, care for each other, and take action for others and the ecosystems. We don’t need more people that don’t give a crap

 

[Deadliestviper7]

Reminiscing about how we’re enjoying the last good times isn’t helping. It’s kind of like taking an expensive painting and enjoying it and then slashing it up and giving it to your kids saying “sorry I enjoyed it, but I went nuts for a moment.” Otherwise a good important post.

Here’s the truth: Without frogs and big predators we are dead meat literally. There’s a reason there’s so many species of animals and plants and we’re not exempt from the circle of life. Action is needed.

People are dumb sometimes. They think humans ruin everything and we’re bad. We do ruin everything and that’s because that’s our purpose in the ecosystem. I know it’s very surprising, but think about it: do you realize how many species wouldn’t exist if humans disappeared? Natural ecosystems aren’t natural if your definition of natural is how something was before humans ruined it. Almost every ecosystem has been sculpted by humans- many of these manmade ecosystems we are now trying to save and preserve yet we say they’re natural. Humans are rash, but no other species has such impacts and one could say it’s because we are supposed to manage the earth- if we manage it badly things go badly.

We can rebuild our ecosystems and species communities. It’s just people have become lazy- they say they’re busy, they don’t have enough money, they don’t give a crap. They say human ecosystems are never natural- I say they kind of remind me of a moron! Not enough people care and if there’s a growing population I only want people who do care, care for each other, and take action for others and the ecosystems. We don’t need more people that don’t give a crap

Exactly! Even the prairie was constantly burned by indigenous peoples, improving the soil and getting rid of dead brush.
In the Amazon tribesmen build fire pits where they cook food, they spit seeds in the fire pit afterwards, prompting certain trees to germinate

 

[skjl47]

Hello; I graduated high school in 1965. Got an undergrad degree in Science with emphasis on Biology in 1970. I was on the way to a masters in the mid 1970 and had been concentrating on ecology classes. There were in my circle back then many who championed various ways to cure the then existing environmental problems and the predicted future problems.
I took a real good look and determined the various warring cries were not going to be heeded. Not heeded in time and likely not at all for the most part. I was young in the 1970's (still in my 20's) and made a choice which to my way of thinking is the single biggest positive thing I could do for the environment. I decided to remain childless.

What I figured was to happen back then, has actually happened. That being the world population has continued to explode and some of the expected environmental issues have worsened as well. Did not take a crystal ball back then of course any more than it takes one today.

It is deja-vu all over again lately as there are sincere folks making a loud cry about the various messes. Many sort of last ditch proposals being thrown about as to how to "solve" the problems. My take is it is too little and too late for much to be fixed or even slowed down much. The cures at this late date are so very drastic so as to be basically worse that the problem.

We have been beyond the carrying capacity of many segments of our ecosystems for some time now. We will have to endure the consequences of past actions. Largely of other peoples actions if you hap[pen to be young. People my age are guilty for sure as were those of my parents generation. As an individual I have not done too bad in reducing my personal environmental impact beyond being childless. The house I bought had some electric bills of over $300 + a month. My highest has been so far in nine + years $110. Guess what, very few have taken a similar path so my individual savings are overwhelmed and made to seem of little value. Some value to my self image I guess. There is plenty more but enough for now.

 

[LBDave]

This is not acceptable on MFK, leave it off the site please.

I was already scolded. Will do!

 

[Copper2]

Hello; I graduated high school in 1965. Got an undergrad degree in Science with emphasis on Biology in 1970. I was on the way to a masters in the mid 1970 and had been concentrating on ecology classes. There were in my circle back then many who championed various ways to cure the then existing environmental problems and the predicted future problems.
I took a real good look and determined the various warring cries were not going to be heeded. Not heeded in time and likely not at all for the most part. I was young in the 1970's (still in my 20's) and made a choice which to my way of thinking is the single biggest positive thing I could do for the environment. I decided to remain childless.

What I figured was to happen back then, has actually happened. That being the world population has continued to explode and some of the expected environmental issues have worsened as well. Did not take a crystal ball back then of course any more than it takes one today.

It is deja-vu all over again lately as there are sincere folks making a loud cry about the various messes. Many sort of last ditch proposals being thrown about as to how to "solve" the problems. My take is it is too little and too late for much to be fixed or even slowed down much. The cures at this late date are so very drastic so as to be basically worse that the problem.

We have been beyond the carrying capacity of many segments of our ecosystems for some time now. We will have to endure the consequences of past actions. Largely of other peoples actions if you hap[pen to be young. People my age are guilty for sure as were those of my parents generation. As an individual I have not done too bad in reducing my personal environmental impact beyond being childless. The house I bought had some electric bills of over $300 + a month. My highest has been so far in nine + years $110. Guess what, very few have taken a similar path so my individual savings are overwhelmed and made to seem of little value. Some value to my self image I guess. There is plenty more but enough for now.

Things have changed too fast. I have a few carnivorous plants so I’ll say this: despite they’re only being a handful of North American pitcher plant species, growers soon realized each individual population was unique. Habitat destruction has destroyed many of these unique populations. Today there are a lot of carnivorous plant growers that have clones of plants from extinct populations. Unfortunately there’s usually only one of two clones from each population so there’s not a whole lot of genetic diversity. I think something like the Yellowstone to Yukon project could be done on a bigger scale throughout ALL of the American continent. We need to designate space that humans won’t intrude on for animals. How awesome is it that Texas has native Jaguars? I think that’s mind blowing, but Jaguars don’t like living with humans and we don’t really want to become dinner. I love river monsters and in one of Jeremy Wade’s shows he went to a place in South America were the locals had banned together to create a reserve hat they protected from poachers. They set up seasons for collecting fish too, and now they sustainably harvest fish, including full size Ariapaima, for the whole village and have more to sell.

We fish keepers have these often important food species that are threatened in the wild in our living room (or bedroom!) and admire them as monster fish. We have so many fish that we could technically stop a species from going extinct. But are we really going to give our time, effort, money, and fish for this cause? This is when Zoos fail. They breed for cute cubs that soon grow up and they can’t get rid of them- they couldn’t give a second thought to animals in the wild. I hope if the need for captive monster fish ever arises that we will rise to help the cause.

People also think species can only be reintroduced where they’re native too. Humans have always sculpted ecosystems and now isn’t the time to change. If someone rebuilt a bog that once had a now extinct population of pitcher plants, do you think that just because the native population is gone we shouldn’t introduce the closest living population or the one that needs the most help? Orangutans are critically endangered, trying to save their native habitat isn’t going to work. A South American rainforest would serve their needs better. There’s a reason why there is a project going on in Texas to import rhinos for save keeping and breeding in Texas game ranches- similar ecosystem and no poachers! I really don’t think a rhino is going to become invasive either. One day rhinos will likely go extinct in Africa and the poachers will forget about it. Then rhinos from Texas can be reintroduced