Northfin food

[RD.]

Again, just for the record I am also glad to see a Canadian company getting into the fish food game, and I wish them nothing but the best. I also understand that you have fish over 4-5" that for whatever reason won't eat NLS. For the vast majority of fishkeepers this apparently isn't an issue, but it is for you so you found a different food that they will eat. It's all good my friend. But that doesn't make the food better.

Not that a few points in ash content in either direction makes a food "better", or worse, the ash content on your label is 9%, which is right in line with NLS formulas. In fact, in some cases more ash in a food could possibly mean less starch (flour) and more fish. I explained this today in the other food thread. As far as fish meal, the highest crude protein, with the best amino acid profile, is found in herring meal. Plain and simple fact. Adding other types of fish meal products to herring meal will not improve on the nutrient profile of a premium grade of herring meal, some of the best herring meal coming out of Canada.

But here's the ironic part;

Herrings and pilchards are *Clupeiform" fish, which means they have true bone skeletons and keen hearing and travel in very large schools, to confuse predators. Sardine is not a separate type of fish, but is the name given to halfgrown pilchards, sprats or herrings (all clupeiform fish).

So what does that tell you? Probably that Darius is using two different sources for his fish meal, one possibly in Canada, and the other (sardine meal) most likely coming out of South America.

Either way that you slice it, that isn't going to gain anything over the herring meal that New Life is using.


I choose NLS over Northfin due to New Lifes track record over the past 20 years. I have been feeding it as a main staple for 10+ yrs, with amazing results, so there's no need for me to look any further. That doesn't mean that Northfin isn't a good food, it certainly appears to be. Darius may not appreciate the fact that I called him out on the clay, and a few other minor things, but that's life, and he better brace himself for poor reviews, and downright crazy people as the bigger you get the more complaints will trickle in. It's part of the business, you will never please everyone, all of the time.

Good luck with your fish!

 

[probassfisher010]

If this and the other topic on food nutrition were a debate, Neil would prevail simply because he's kept his argument objective and factual, the other side calls him and NLS out on claims that were never even stated. I have yet to see any one from NorthFin and friends counter any of RDs easily understandable arguments and points.

I honestly feel for you RD, not sure how you keep laying out indispensable information that would take an individual hours to find(even with the net) and just get ignorant responses that don't even reflect what you stated.


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[seel1990]

If this and the other topic on food nutrition were a debate, Neil would prevail simply because he's kept his argument objective and factual, the other side calls him and NLS out on claims that were never even stated. I have yet to see any one from NorthFin and friends counter any of RDs easily understandable arguments and points.

I honestly feel for you RD, not sure how you keep laying out indispensable information that would take an individual hours to find(even with the net) and just get ignorant responses that don't even reflect what you stated.


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Agreed


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[CANAMONSTER]

Thank you very much for that RD. Agree also with the post above!

 

[pingopongo]

Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Wheat Flour, Algae Meal, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract, Ginseng, Vitamin A Acetate, DL Alphatocopherol (E), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Choline Chloride, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate and Ferrous Sulfate.

Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, High Omega-3 (DHA), Herring Meal, Whole Sardine Meal, Wheat Flour, Kelp, Spirulina, Garlic, Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae), Calcium Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamin A Acetate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphospate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), DL Alphatocopherol (E), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Hydrochloride B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Selenium, Zinc.

 

[pingopongo]

I think the clay issue is a non factor. It is 11th on NorthFins ingredient list. Both sides could probably argue forever on whether it has any benefits. Definitely hasn't harmed any of my fish. I keep wild caught tropheus and after feeding for over a year I have never had bloat. Dr. Pleshener from the University of Californis puts it in his families porridge every morning. Pretty sure he wouldn't be doing that if it was harmful. Thinking it might cause frontal hair loss but shouldn't be an issue with your fish.........
http://youtu.be/bdmGu8VefC4

 

[pingopongo]

The sardine debate is probably more relevant if your ingredients were coming from overseas. Especially if you were ordering from, I don't know, lets say Australia, New Zealand, England or China. Ozzies call any small fish a sardine. English call herring kippers and anything that smells fishy and comes out of a can a sardine. Chinese have more options to choose from... Less confusion over here as the sardine is caught only in the Pacific.

 

[RD.]

And what's your point, pongo?

I never said that clay was an issue, I said that it was a gimmick, which in my opinion it is. There is no proven gained nutritional benefit from the minerals found in the clay, which is what Darius stated its purpose was.

Clay we are using for the natural mineral sours and it will not hurt any fish.

I think that I pretty much cleared that up already, many years ago, and again in this discussion. There really is no argument. And mentioning some Dr from CA that puts clay in his families porridge every morning has exactly what to do with feeding fish? Are you kidding me??? Using that same logic if its safe to feed a coyote, it must be safe to feed a fish. Hmmmmm.

As far as sardines, there is no debate. I already addressed that as well, and only because Canamonster somehow thought that adding sardine meal, to herring meal, was some kind of added plus over New Life. It's like putting High Omega-3 (DHA) in front of herring meal - all quality herring meal is high in Omega-3. That's called marketing, I get it.

What I don't get is when a salesman attempts to sell me something that in my mind just doesn't make any sense, such as adding clay for its mineral content, as a consumer I start wondering if that person doesn't know what they are talking about, or if they are simply attempting to BS the masses. This of course is just my opinion, as a consumer. Being 11th on an ingredient list doesn't give anything a free pass either - it's still one notch above the vitamin/mineral premix. Unless you feel that the vitamin and mineral content in a fish food is a non factor, as well.


And then there was this ........

I personally newer liked NLS and this is the last thing I would do in my mind is to make a copy like you are accusing us.

That coming from someone who liked NLS enough, for years, to import it into Canada and sell it to the masses. So my only conclusion from that comment is, he imported this food that he apparently didn't like, and sold it to hobbyists, strictly out of financial motivation.

That's where Darius and I are completely different, money has never been my motivation in the betterment of this hobby. I actually believe in the product that I feed my fish, I did so long before I had any type of vested interest, and I continue to now long after my professional association with that company has ended.


I don't know why you guys keep picking at this scab, in case you haven't noticed this isn't gaining you anything in the PR dept.

 

[fishman09]

I would like to note that RD hasn't really slammed NorthFin like some are making it out to be. There only a few things he disagrees with and to me they seem somewhat minor compared to what he's picked apart other foods for having in them. So for that NorthFin should be proud. If you read through how he's torn apart foods in other threads you'll know what I mean.

In the end the NorthFin label when put into a vacuum with all the other major brands and compared it is basically right up there with the best out there very close to the top and that cannot be argued. Only thing to do now is test and prove the concept over a longterm basis.

I have mad respect for RD and he has single handedly changed how I look at the hobby and the food I feed my fish. I think what's happening is not seeing the forest through the trees. It may come off as arrogant and with an agenda but I truly believe that the info he puts out is straight facts and has the purpose to better the hobby as whole.

During story time the best thing to do is just sit down and listen, and if you spend the whole time talking to your friend next to you you'll miss the story. After all my back and forth with RD I'm now just sitting, listening and learning.

For me though NLS wasn't doing it for me. I do ,however, see awesome potential in NorthFin and am feeding it exclusively to all my fish, but only time will truly tell what they have at Northfin. Until then all I can stand behind is what's on the packaging which IMO is an awesome start. Can't wait to see the results of longterm feeding

Stay tuned



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[pingopongo]

I think the clay has been added to aid in the digestion and consistency of the food. If it was listed after the vitamins then the amount would be so small that adding it to label would definitely be a marketing ploy. Darius obviously believes that it has beneficial effects or he wouldn't add it. If you listen to the video you will hear the world renowned Dr. Pleshener state that he also adds it to his fishes diet. The point I was trying to make is that it isn't harmful to either fish or even humans and may actually assist in the digestion and consistency of food. The only thing I can state as a fact is that I have been feeding *NorthFin* to several colonies of wild caught tropheus for over a year and haven't had bloat. I can't say the same thing when I was using my previous food.. Great colour, breeding and happy little piggies.