Northfin food
- Thread starter rjkz28
- Start date
Because they are not required to. MSDS/SDS/GHS are all designed strictly for safety reasons. No company is required to break things down to the point of giving away trademark secrets.
But if it makes you feel better, a copy of an older MSDS.
http://sevron.co.uk/msds/naturox-tx-premiumliquid-msds-download/
The basic raw ingredients have never changed - but the form of vegetable oil could potentially change. The rest you can figure out using google .....
But if it makes you feel better, a copy of an older MSDS.
http://sevron.co.uk/msds/naturox-tx-premiumliquid-msds-download/
The basic raw ingredients have never changed - but the form of vegetable oil could potentially change. The rest you can figure out using google .....
It's just baffling that there aren't any public statements from NF re: the positive test results. I mean, not even a "we are aware of the situation, we tested our food, we were unable to reproduce the results". They should just bite the bullet and do a press release that addresses this.
Yes, I'll have to conttinue to differ with Mr. Teapot (and likely RD) over that one. However, the statements on the NLS Web Site are 100% accurate. The statement of "The fact is, there are no documented cases where ethoxyquin at these levels has been found to cause any long term negative health problems in fish" is 100% accurate, because no long term study has ever been accomplished.
Did you send in a sample and get results? I'm not sure where all of these are pulled from but I remember it being mentioned that you were going to give it a shot.
Every hobbyist that has fed their tropical fish, foods that contain ethoxyquin, over a lifetime of 10, 15, and in some cases 25+ years, have taken part in a long term feed safety study.
There is currently a goldfish in the UK that is reported to be 38 yrs old, and fed only common goldfish flake food, flakes that with certainty have been preserved with ethoxyquin for its entire life.
What isn't certain is what the breaking point is when feeding fish, where this particular substance can go from a preservative, to a potential toxin. But that is no different than every other substance that goes into a fish food, including common vitamins, even those used for natural food preserving, such as vitamin E. A concept that is apparently lost on many......
I have personally never had an issue with EQ, when used in limited amounts, as in below the current approved level of 150 ppm. As previously stated, I expect that most of the top brands that use this preservative will be below 100 ppm. If someone can prove that at those levels it can cause long term health issues in tropical fish, then I will gladly change my stance on the subject.
There is currently a goldfish in the UK that is reported to be 38 yrs old, and fed only common goldfish flake food, flakes that with certainty have been preserved with ethoxyquin for its entire life.
What isn't certain is what the breaking point is when feeding fish, where this particular substance can go from a preservative, to a potential toxin. But that is no different than every other substance that goes into a fish food, including common vitamins, even those used for natural food preserving, such as vitamin E. A concept that is apparently lost on many......
I have personally never had an issue with EQ, when used in limited amounts, as in below the current approved level of 150 ppm. As previously stated, I expect that most of the top brands that use this preservative will be below 100 ppm. If someone can prove that at those levels it can cause long term health issues in tropical fish, then I will gladly change my stance on the subject.
Exactly, and certain general conclusions can be drawn from this well as from scientific aquaculture study.
1. Water quality and water related factors are highly important to fish health and longevity.
2. Feeding levels and protein levels are important to fish growth and health. Overfeeding and too high or too low protein levels have negative effects on fish health, growth, and longevity. Some of these are internal, such as fatty liver.
3. Certain ingredients, such as soy based meal and flour, etc., have limited tolerance by fish, varying by species. One of the studied negative effects is intestinal inflammation. Certain combinations of ingredients, soy and peas, for example, also cause negative effects. This is well documented and has been the subject of ongoing study as commercial aquaculture attempts to find alternative feed and protein sources. Example:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131203090706.htm
From my perspective, that controlled lab studies of EQ with fish hasn't been done does leave some open questions, such as whether there are unknown long term sub-lethal health effects at approved levels, whether some species or individuals are more sensitive than others, whether certain nutrients provide some protection from potential negative EQ effects or whether certain ingredients in combination with EQ increase the risk. I'm also open to the possibility that more than one fish food has higher than FDA approved levels of EQ. But without clinical study or positive data, it leaves the answers to these things in the realm of opinion or conjecture.
What seems apparent overall, at least if you've been in the hobby long enough, is that it's easier to keep fish healthier and living longer with the foods, equipment, and nutritional science we have today than it was 40-50 years ago.
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The reality is there are, and most likely always will be, open questions regarding fish nutrition in captivity, certainly not just with EQ, as the vast majority of funding for this science is mostly for commercial species only - many which are cold water species. That, and there are thousands of tropical species kept in captivity.
What long term feed trials do we have regarding finfish, and Naturox, and with what species, and at what levels? I assume one will see much higher levels of Naturox, than what one typically sees in EQ. I would think 2-3 times the level, or much shorter shelf life of the food.
Will it be safer for fish? Probably, but at this point I don't think that anyone can give definitive answers about any of this. So the change is made to appease the masses. As long as a company actually does what it says it's doing, I'm ok with that too.
What long term feed trials do we have regarding finfish, and Naturox, and with what species, and at what levels? I assume one will see much higher levels of Naturox, than what one typically sees in EQ. I would think 2-3 times the level, or much shorter shelf life of the food.
Will it be safer for fish? Probably, but at this point I don't think that anyone can give definitive answers about any of this. So the change is made to appease the masses. As long as a company actually does what it says it's doing, I'm ok with that too.
