Odd zebra pike question

[DHarris]

After having a psychotic zebrina a while back that I had to sell as it tried to kill everything it could, I've given them another shot after doing a lot more homework.

Roughly two months ago a purchased what seemed to be a bonded pair in the shop. I added them to my tank and their bonded behavior continued.

Two weeks ago I did a big rescape, which I heard can mess with them. The female (assuming) was hiding and once she came out I noticed she was pretty beat up. The male attacked her whenever he'd see her but not to the point where it seemed he was trying to kill her.

Since then, they seem to have mostly taken different sides of the tank to themselves. She's a bit skittish and he will chase her but he doesn't attack. They can be around each other when eating but then go their separate ways.

I've been deep diving the internet to see how common this may be and if it's possible they'll rekindle their romance. Assuming the rescape is what split them and now there's less aggression but still chasing, might they pair back up or is that done?

Neither show any aggression towards any of their tank mates.

I'd love to hear from anyone who's experience this sort of behavior.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Potato Patatto]

I thought you had to sex them via ultrasound to be sure of gender? I never had a pair but I learned two things with my Zebrina..

1: they despise mid-dwelling fish that have similar body shapes (killed my Jardini in 3 days)
2: when they have a thick black stripe horizontally across their body, they’re seriously pissed off.

Mine was for too unpredictable, one day fine next day a nightmare. Thought a 220g upgrade from a 125g would ease the aggression and it only got worse. Perhaps a new environment makes it feel like they need to reestablish dominance or makes them defensive.

Its definitely odd they aren’t showing aggression to any other tankmate. It would make me assume they are either both male or one sex is just beating on the other like you mentioned. I would play around more with the scape and if it continues, temporarily remove the aggressor and add back after the other zebra has made it there territory.

 

[Rocksor]

It's possible they will pair backup. I remember reading how Vinny had the same issue with his johanna over the span of 8 years. It was the female that pinned the male to a floating log. It took years for the pair to attempt to mate once or tiwce. Afer each attempt was done, the male was pinned back into the log.

Have you tried lowering your water's hardness (GH)? This might put the male and female in a better mood and more conditioned for breeding. I noticed that your profile says you are from LA, which typically has hard water.

 

[duanes]

This is very common with pike (in fact any cichlid).
Change the decor, add a fish, remove a fish, other intangibles, any of these or just one can change the entire perception of the hierarchy in an established tank.
It could return to normal, or just the opposite.
If you have a system that works, better not to change, even minutely.

 

[DHarris]

I thought you had to sex them via ultrasound to be sure of gender? I never had a pair but I learned two things with my Zebrina..

1: they despise mid-dwelling fish that have similar body shapes (killed my Jardini in 3 days)
2: when they have a thick black stripe horizontally across their body, they’re seriously pissed off.

Mine was for too unpredictable, one day fine next day a nightmare. Thought a 220g upgrade from a 125g would ease the aggression and it only got worse. Perhaps a new environment makes it feel like they need to reestablish dominance or makes them defensive.

Its definitely odd they aren’t showing aggression to any other tankmate. It would make me assume they are either both male or one sex is just beating on the other like you mentioned. I would play around more with the scape and if it continues, temporarily remove the aggressor and add back after the other zebra has made it there territory.

As far as I'm aware, there is potential to be able to sex them via venting. The only reason I assumed they were a pair was that they were inseparable. They were constantly in physical contact and stuck by each other's sides. One is slightly more robust than the other though they're the same length. Total speculation though.

It's possible they will pair backup. I remember reading how Vinny had the same issue with his johanna over the span of 8 years. It was the female that pinned the male to a floating log. It took years for the pair to attempt to mate once or tiwce. Afer each attempt was done, the male was pinned back into the log.

Have you tried lowering your water's hardness (GH)? This might put the male and female in a better mood and more conditioned for breeding. I noticed that your profile says you are from LA, which typically has hard water.

I haven't. Didn't even think about that. I'll test it today and see where it's at. Thanks for the suggestion.

This is very common with pike (in fact any cichlid).
Change the decor, add a fish, remove a fish, other intangibles, any of these or just one can change the entire perception of the hierarchy in an established tank.
It could return to normal, or just the opposite.
If you have a system that works, better not to change, even minutely.

No plans for any rescapes in the immediate future. I'd pulled out a ton of wood and replaced it with three large pieces. I primarily keep plecos and wants to be able to create a smaller footprint of the wood to help prevent the wast from getting trapped.

Hopefully they'll get back together. ?

Here they are before the break up.

 

[Potato Patatto]

What a scape

 

[DHarris]

Thanks, I appreciate it!

 

[Goggy]

The C. zebrina look pretty young.

Nice work and good luck, I’ll be following this thread.

 

[DHarris]

They were roughly 6-7" when purchased.

Here's the latest; The aggressive pike has grown considerably. It's active and outgoing but still fortunately not aggressive towards any of the tank mates other than the other pike.

The second pike has been more or less hiding towards the upper left corner around wood and a couple of powerheads. It's been a bit darker, which I assume is stress coloration. It does eat and will come out. It's skittish and clearly on the lookout for the other when it does come out.

When the aggressor sees the second pike it still chases it, occasionally looks like it's ramming it but it's definitely not tried to kill it as I'm certain it'd be dead by now after watching the terror my first one unleashed.

Given that they're both still healthy, despite the second one not being all that comfortable, I'm hopeful things will settle...

 

[DHarris]

Another update and looking for some more advice.

I'm now fairly certain that I've got a male and female as the larger fish had very pointed dorsal and anal fins and the other's are far more rounded. Unless these aren't indicators as they are for many other cichlid.


The "female" still hangs in the area where the "male" used to keep her in but he no longer chases her. She's still skittish but has brightened back up in color and come out to feed with little issues. He'd grown considerable so I've been target feeding her and she's been catching up in size. Both are now roughly 10" but the presumed male is definitely thicker. The pair can eat peacefully right next to each other without any aggression roughly 90% of the time. At worst the male will give her a gentle nudge and she goes back to her corner. Otherwise, zero chasing, ramming or biting.

They're far from being paired back up but the dynamic has gotten a lot better.

Anything I may be able to do to assist their reunification or just stay the course?
I've also been trying to offload a number of my other fish. Should I be concerned that lightening the stock might turn them against each other again or is that a safe play?