Official Off Topic Discussion Thread #1

[skjl47]

Pull your head out, weren't we talking about ILLEGAL immigration? Now you think you're going to school us on legal immigration? ...yeah...

Hello; Yes somehow the ILLEGAL part of what is going on gets shoved aside. I figure it is a tactic. In fact this tactic has been somewhat successful. We should call the ones who sneak in illegal aliens. The fact that I myself sometimes use the term "immigrant" is evidence of this tactics partial success.
Folks who sneak in or who abuse the terms of a visa are criminals. There are ways for non citizens to apply to get into the country legally.

A bit about the current engineered uproar over the treatment of children entering the country ILLEGALLY. What would take place if some adult took a child (his own or a borrowed one) in with him to rob a bank. Of course the child will not be charged in the crime but the adult will be. I get that illegal entry into a country is a different crime than bank robbery, but still a crime. The adult who dragged a child into the country illegally should get the criticism for the child being separated, not the border agents or the ICE agents.

 

[*ROCK*]

Hello; Yes somehow the ILLEGAL part of what is going on gets shoved aside. I figure it is a tactic. In fact this tactic has been somewhat successful. We should call the ones who sneak in illegal aliens. The fact that I myself sometimes use the term "immigrant" is evidence of this tactics partial success.
Folks who sneak in or who abuse the terms of a visa are criminals. There are ways for non citizens to apply to get into the country legally.

A bit about the current engineered uproar over the treatment of children entering the country ILLEGALLY. What would take place if some adult took a child (his own or a borrowed one) in with him to rob a bank. Of course the child will not be charged in the crime but the adult will be. I get that illegal entry into a country is a different crime than bank robbery, but still a crime. The adult who dragged a child into the country illegally should get the criticism for the child being separated, not the border agents or the ICE agents.

Lol, engineered uproar. That's what it is alright.

 

[jaws7777]

To answer your question, we already vet potential immigrants very well. We check their background with several databases. I'll requote "The U.S. visa vetting system is one of the world’s toughest. Applicants’ biographic data, photographs, and fingerprints are collected and screened against a range of national security databases that contain millions of entries and include classified information from federal, state, local, and foreign governments. Applicants must provide voluminous documentation to verify their identities and backgrounds. Immigrant visa applicants – those applying to stay permanently in the U.S. – are generally subject to more scrutiny than temporary visa applicants, including a medical examination and other screenings."
We also can not ban people from getting citizenship because of their national origin.
Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 92 (1973) (stating that Title VII[Civil Rights Act] "prohibits discrimination on the basis of citizenship whenever it has the purpose or effect of discriminating on the basis of national origin");

Yes in a vacuum you are correc
But the president and the federal gov powers are different t during times of war.

Carter banned Iranian immigration. At one time HIV positive person's were banned until oshama lifted it. Communists and even Jews were banned for some time during ww2.

 

[jaws7777]

To answer your question, we already vet potential immigrants very well. We check their background with several databases. I'll requote "The U.S. visa vetting system is one of the world’s toughest. Applicants’ biographic data, photographs, and fingerprints are collected and screened against a range of national security databases that contain millions of entries and include classified information from federal, state, local, and foreign governments. Applicants must provide voluminous documentation to verify their identities and backgrounds. Immigrant visa applicants – those applying to stay permanently in the U.S. – are generally subject to more scrutiny than temporary visa applicants, including a medical examination and other screenings."
We also can not ban people from getting citizenship because of their national origin.
Espinoza v. Farah Mfg. Co., 414 U.S. 86, 92 (1973) (stating that Title VII[Civil Rights Act] "prohibits discrimination on the basis of citizenship whenever it has the purpose or effect of discriminating on the basis of national origin");

Vetting ? Serious question other than quoting DHS guidelines on "how" they are vetting these people. Do you honestly believe these methods are effective ? Do you believe that a terrorist could possibly sneak his way in ?

 

[krichardson]

Good morning brethren and happy Friday!

 

[skjl47]

we already vet potential immigrants very well

talking about ILLEGAL immigration?

Vetting ?

Hello; At the risk of beating a dead horse again let me say the problem is about ILLEGAL ALIENS, not about those using legal methods of getting into a country.

The illegal aliens are not vetted at all because they are sneaking in (Or at least trying to). I get that some on the other side of the issue than myself want the sneak thieves to be treated just like the proper legal immigrants.

On another point, that of theft of services. No matter how this all plays out we taxpayers are footing the bills for all this border fiasco. We pay for the various court proceedings. For the housing and feeding of people who should not be here in the first place and likely other stuff.
Many that do manage to sneak in and are not caught (or get turned lose by the "catch and release" policy of the past) have an added cost to our society. Not just in social services only.

I believe I was watching Washington Journal on C-Span a few years ago when there was an episode about illegal aliens. Best as I can recall the benefits to society from various taxes and such the aliens pay amounted to say around $24,000. However the costs were estimated to be around $34,000 when all taxpayer financed services get added up. This leaving a net deficit of around $10,000 on average per alien. First I get that these are ball park figures but the guy seemed to have the information to back his talk up. I guess we might also add to the cost the expense of unemployment of citizens who lose work or jobs.
Maybe with a good border wall or other method of securing the border we could save a lot of these expenses. I get that the border wall will have a big up front cost but very likely will pay off in the long term.

Throw on top of all this the costs of actual damage to individual citizens when hurt or killed by someone in the country illegally. Some times a traffic accident with an alien involved. Sometimes a drunk driver alien. Sometimes a murder by an alien who picks up a gun that "just went off". Sometimes gang related stuff. The point being none of these things would have happened if the alien in particular was not here in the first place and we had a secure border. One is more than enough but there are much more than one as the count keeps rising.

The argument that illegal aliens do not commit crimes at as high a rate as regular citizens holds no sway for me. I do not get into bar fights because I do not go into bars sort of thing. In among all those "good" aliens are some bad ones. Better to keep out all who try sneak in both the good ones and the bad ones. Let the good ones be "vetted" and get in the legal way.

And I am going to stop without comments on potential terrorist coming thru a porous border. Enough for one session. Probably just fed the troll anyway.

 

[jaws7777]

Hello; At the risk of beating a dead horse again let me say the problem is about ILLEGAL ALIENS, not about those using legal methods of getting into a country.

The illegal aliens are not vetted at all because they are sneaking in (Or at least trying to). I get that some on the other side of the issue than myself want the sneak thieves to be treated just like the proper legal immigrants.

On another point, that of theft of services. No matter how this all plays out we taxpayers are footing the bills for all this border fiasco. We pay for the various court proceedings. For the housing and feeding of people who should not be here in the first place and likely other stuff.
Many that do manage to sneak in and are not caught (or get turned lose by the "catch and release" policy of the past) have an added cost to our society. Not just in social services only.

I believe I was watching Washington Journal on C-Span a few years ago when there was an episode about illegal aliens. Best as I can recall the benefits to society from various taxes and such the aliens pay amounted to say around $24,000. However the costs were estimated to be around $34,000 when all taxpayer financed services get added up. This leaving a net deficit of around $10,000 on average per alien. First I get that these are ball park figures but the guy seemed to have the information to back his talk up. I guess we might also add to the cost the expense of unemployment of citizens who lose work or jobs.
Maybe with a good border wall or other method of securing the border we could save a lot of these expenses. I get that the border wall will have a big up front cost but very likely will pay off in the long term.

Throw on top of all this the costs of actual damage to individual citizens when hurt or killed by someone in the country illegally. Some times a traffic accident with an alien involved. Sometimes a drunk driver alien. Sometimes a murder by an alien who picks up a gun that "just went off". Sometimes gang related stuff. The point being none of these things would have happened if the alien in particular was not here in the first place and we had a secure border. One is more than enough but there are much more than one as the count keeps rising.

The argument that illegal aliens do not commit crimes at as high a rate as regular citizens holds no sway for me. I do not get into bar fights because I do not go into bars sort of thing. In among all those "good" aliens are some bad ones. Better to keep out all who try sneak in both the good ones and the bad ones. Let the good ones be "vetted" and get in the legal way.

And I am going to stop without comments on potential terrorist coming thru a porous border. Enough for one session. Probably just fed the troll anyway.

I didn't read all of that but legal immigration is also an issue for me. I'm from a family of immigrants. My grandparents had to learn the language and had to be inoculated. This to the best of my understanding does not happen today

 

[jaws7777]

Public schools are now teaching English language classes because of the number of students that do not soak the language. This is a waste of time for the children that do. Should have been a requirement on the parents or grandparents to learn this when the got here.

How many times do you get the option to hit 1 for English and 2 for Spanish ?

 

[krichardson]

Public schools are now teaching English language classes because of the number of students that do not soak the language. This is a waste of time for the children that do. Should have been a requirement on the parents or grandparents to learn this when the got here.

How many times do you get the option to hit 1 for English and 2 for Spanish ?

I'm not sure about other areas,but some schools here have "English as a second language" classes.Last I heard,there is no official language in this country.

 

[*ROCK*]

I'm not sure about other areas,but some schools here have "English as a second language" classes.Last I heard,there is no official language in this country.

You can imagine what it's like here in southern California. FREE ESL classes, at lots of the schools.