Official Off Topic Discussion Thread #1

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Having a healthy population of predators is vital to a functioning ecosystem and if farmers can't keep their livestock safe while also protecting the enviroment they co-exist the farmer should admit defeat, pull up their bootstraps, and get a job where they can't be outwitted by a dog.

Wolves in residential areas should be "residential invasives in wolf areas."

The wolves were there long before man was, they're not to blame here.

And wolves won't eat "bad meat" and a lot of horses and livestock are chock full of drugs no one and nothing should be consuming.
 
Having a healthy population of predators is vital to a functioning ecosystem and if farmers can't keep their livestock safe while also protecting the enviroment they co-exist the farmer should admit defeat, pull up their bootstraps, and get a job where they can't be outwitted by a dog.

Wolves in residential areas should be "residential invasives in wolf areas."

The wolves were there long before man was, they're not to blame here.

And wolves won't eat "bad meat" and a lot of horses and livestock are chock full of drugs no one and nothing should be consuming.
Hello; my guess is my take will surprise some on here. The windmill I tilted at in my youth was human overpopulation back in the late 1960's thru the 1970's. I tried to walk the walk and had a vasectomy when in my 20's before I fathered any children. I advocated a peaceful way to limit population growth called ZPG (zero population growth) Simply put a couple limit their number of children to two-one each for a lifetime. Had enough people kept that method the population would have stabilized decades ago.
But such did not happen. The human population grew exponentially. Along with numbers the impact was more land covered by housing, roads, malls, schools and the like. So yes, we people have been crowding wildlife for a long time. Seems possible the animals which have been retreating to keep away from us have or are running out of space to retreat to. So, animals are naturally in survival mode and are being forced into conflict with people.

Here is where I think i differ with your comments. While i understand the tenor of your take I do not see it as viable. People will not tolerate a pack of deadly predators in their neighborhoods for long. Examples may be the puma and bear attacks increasing recently. The bears & pumas will lose out in the end. The reports are the puma which killed a woman has been hunted down and killed. Same for bears which mess with people too much.

I got a chuckle from your attempt to downplay a pack of wolves to a farmer being outwitted by a "dog". A wolf pack is a group of deadly predators.
 

Hello; the above link holds the information i posted yesterday plus more. This link does not mention politicians. Bear in mind this is stuff already proven along with convictions. Seems there will be more to come as the investigations continue.
 
Hello; I do not know how much of yesterdays shooting in MN we can discuss. I do think last nights 10:00 to 11:00 PM episode on CNN was interesting. The exchange between Scott Jennings & Abby Phillips was telling. The woman in the blue clothing was spouting very unreasonable stuff.
 
This view that animals own the world and we are interlopers is silly. The animals are here for our use. When they are unwanted, it’s not a problem.

Also the overpopulation problem was always a fake issue. Because elected people didn’t know how to deal with it, they vilified it through propaganda campaigns.

The result was a lower population of high thinkers and a higher population of morons. See, they didn’t read the propaganda.
 
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This view that animals own the world and we are interlopers is silly. The animals are here for our use. When they are unwanted, it’s not a problem.

Also the overpopulation problem was always a fake issue. Because elected people didn’t know how to deal with it, they vilified it through propaganda campaigns.

The result was a lower population of high thinkers and a higher population of morons. See, they didn’t read the propaganda.
Hello; While I do not agree human overpopulation as a fake issue, I do recognize it is a distinction without a difference. The population is at, or past tipping points and the die is set so to speak. I admit I lost the campaign to stabilize human population long ago. The earth, tho very large, is finite. The extra billions of humans is and will continue to have an impact.
It was interesting to debate the related issues back in the day. Not much point now. Might be enlightening to dust off the old arguments as a mental exercise.
 
Hello; While I do not agree human overpopulation as a fake issue, I do recognize it is a distinction without a difference. The population is at, or past tipping points and the die is set so to speak. I admit I lost the campaign to stabilize human population long ago. The earth, tho very large, is finite. The extra billions of humans is and will continue to have an impact.
It was interesting to debate the related issues back in the day. Not much point now. Might be enlightening to dust off the old arguments as a mental exercise.

Hello; I have know of this site for a long time. Never have checked it to find a population decline. I suspect, but admit I cannot know, that the population is over nine billion. Even so being over 8 billion is a big increase over back in the 1960's.
 
Having a healthy population of predators is vital to a functioning ecosystem and if farmers can't keep their livestock safe while also protecting the enviroment they co-exist the farmer should admit defeat, pull up their bootstraps, and get a job where they can't be outwitted by a dog.
I'm not sure that I agree with the bad meat thing...I've read opinions and "proofs" that this may or may not be true, and I suspect it has a lot of contributing factors like availability of food in general, experience of the wolves in question, etc.

But I'm in full agreement that nature must be allowed to function naturally. That includes allowing predators to do their own thing. Farmers and ranchers who think that they must be eradicated fall into the same category, IMHO, as some religious zealots I know who kill every snake they see, anywhere they see it, out of some silly notion that they are "doing God's will".

I don't subscribe to the idea that the Earth is here for us to crush beneath our bootheels, and that anything and everything that doesn't directly serve human interests must be exterminated. When in wilderness areas, the fact that there is some risk presented by such things as venomous snakes or aggressive/predatory animals is part of the appeal of being there. When we raise up a bunch of semi-free-range chickens, we expect and accept that some will be lost to weasels, foxes, coyotes, etc. Some yard and crop damage due to deer, bears, rodents or other critters is a part of life in the country...and it should be. Folks who don't or can't accept these losses need to move to the city.

I've shot countless coyotes and a couple of wolves that have gotten a little too cocky, a little too familiar, a bit overconfident that they have nothing to fear from those weird two-legged critters who have all that tasty stuff living and growing in their yards and fields. I'm accustomed to farmers whose only complaint is that I don't shoot more. I'm also accustomed to the tree-hugging types...usually weekend warriors from the city... who weep and wail at the notion that I would kill such "beautiful, innocent creatures". I wonder how many of them stop to think that one of the things that makes it safer for them to don their Birkenstocks and traipse merrily along a wilderness trail is the fact that predators are taught...largely by hunters...that humans are to be feared and respected and avoided.

This view that animals own the world and we are interlopers is silly. The animals are here for our use. When they are unwanted, it’s not a problem.
I don't think many people actually say the animals "own the world", which is indeed silly. Equally silly, in a dangerous way, is the notion that the animals...along with the rest of the world...are here "for our use". The world is here; we evolved, along with the rest of the animals, to live here. If the world changes too much, becomes too far removed from the place where we, humans and animals, evolved...then there might be a re-set. Climate change, droughts, famines, upheavals of any sort, have been happening since long before we were around, and will continue long after we're gone.

It's silly to suggest that we are destroying the world. We are altering its condition, perhaps to the point where it's no longer survivable to us, but if we disappear tomorrow...it's not a big deal in the cosmic scheme of things. It's about the equivalent of a fresh coat of paint on the living room walls. The Earth...and life...will persist, even if we don't.

Of course, we won't just disappear; our population might be decimated by any number of "disasters", both artificial and natural. But those highly-overrated brains of ours will allow us, as a species, to survive almost anything. Then we can start overpopulating again.

And, yes, of course we are overpopulating. For the human species, evolution ceased being a thing long ago. Now that we are so enlightened and aware, we do everything we can to ensure that everybody lives a long life, has kids, blah, blah, blah. Perhaps a small percentage of us thinks in terms of future generations, but most people just keep on breeding. Gimme, gimme, gimme, more, more, more...it's devolution now. Not natural selection, nor any kind of selection at all.
 
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Hello; I do not know how much of yesterdays shooting in MN we can discuss. I do think last nights 10:00 to 11:00 PM episode on CNN was interesting. The exchange between Scott Jennings & Abby Phillips was telling. The woman in the blue clothing was spouting very unreasonable stuff.
Two lesbian women were making some idiot “protest video”. One of them kept blocking traffic. The other shot the video you see on the news, from the curb.

The perp blocked an official ICE truck, with its red lights going, stopping her car across the whole road.

She was ordered out of the car at gunpoint by officers, and decided she didn’t have to obey the two big guys pointing guns at her.

She floored the gas and her engine roars, but the tires just spin for a second. Then the car starts moving.

She hits an officer in the leg and is pushing him back on the ice. He is sliding but he doesn’t fall. He shoots her through the glass from 6’ and she dies with her foot on the gas.

He shoots at her twice more for good luck. Maybe it was anxiety. Maybe he was mad she tried to run him down.

It doesn’t matter to her now. The car runs off, crashing down the street.

Officers attempt to save her but she is history.

All this is seen in the slow motion version of the video, and also in another video, taken by someone else from the opposite side of the street.

Meanwhile the governor of Minnesota says he will mobilize their guard to fight with federal agents. I wonder how that’s gonna go over?

I’m thinking FBI agents are going to show up at the governor’s mansion at 2 AM with a warrant and a set of handcuffs.
 
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