OH NO! The Chemical Filtration Debate

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aclockworkorange;4363508;4363508 said:
:screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: Yeah dude, that's me. You got me bro! Good call!

Debate is welcome, but it is just taking up thread space when have no actual use of the products. Let's focus on what chemical filtration can add, in addition to proper filtration and water changes.

I have no opinion one way or the other, just curiosity.
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it doesnt matter if ive used them or not. i gave you a specific example in one of my tanks, gave you nitrate readings, told you what i use to achieve crystal clear water, but you ignored it all.

sorry for taking up space in your thread. i can see there's sooooo many people dying to tell you how good chemical filtration is :ROFL:
 
jcardona1;4363521; said:
it doesnt matter if ive used them or not. i gave you a specific example in one of my tanks, gave you nitrate readings, told you what i use to achieve crystal clear water, but you ignored it all.

sorry for taking up space in your thread. i can see there's sooooo many people dying to tell you how good chemical filtration is :ROFL:
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Input appreciated, I'm not going to argue on an internet message board about it anymore.

Yes, that's the point of this thread, many people don't use chemical filtration, so many do not have anything to add.
 
Found some interesting stuff on this thread:
http://www.aquariumpros.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1457.html

Concluded a long post about fish growth hormone...

"So... What's an average pet-fish-ichthyologist to do, anyhow? Mainly, not worry too much; at least not more than their benefiting from their aquatic experience. Actually there are (to my understanding) only a couple or three "things to do" to ameliorate the cumulative negative effects of metabolite build up:

1) Try to selectively filter/change these compounds. Various carbons and clinoptilolites (e.g. zeolite) have showed various positive results in removal of ammonia salts (see Konstantinov et al. re Cyprinus carpio (koi) and Brachydanio rerio (zebra danios) experiments). Still gotta plug skimmer/protein skimmers, with or without ozone et alia embellishments.

2) Serial dilution through, Yes, my favorite: FREQUENT PARTIAL WATER CHANGES; Yay! Certainly the best, least expensive, effective means. Oh, semi-lastly,

3) Flood the system with complementary chemicals. Live plants, a mix of communities of macro and micro-organisms, the whole "life'juice" of the system... the more complex and complete, larger, the better. Live plants, algae, generally all organisms investigated also have their phytohormones et al. affecting/influencing their own and other species. The more these are integrated and functioning, the more naturally homogeneous and self-stabilizing (homeostatic) your system will be. Therefore the argument for linking your tanks together, use live plants, live rock, etc, and finally, lastly

4) The usual harangue about mis/over-feeding. The more glop tossed in, the worse. Feed sparingly, at correct intervals, of useful foods. Are you feeding for growth or maintenance or what?"


As stated in 1, chemical additions to the tank... obviously frequent water changes are an absolute necessity for a variety of reasons! But can this be beneficial?

Is there any data on what trace elements are found in a healthy aquarium?
 
I have been looking for a chem to remove phosphate from my drip system to control algae.
 
lets drop it down a slight notch, we're all friends here & kinda feels like the air can almost be cut with a knife.

You guys bring up valid points, and the aspect that matters is your questioning things around you - so its always the correct step in the right dirrection.

Science has infiltrated this hobby, just like any other aspect that can potentially turn over profits. From a total aquatic perspective, salt water has overtaken freshwater by a long shot in this regards. Yes company research provides the funding in alot of cases, however as always, R&D costs money, so they have to capitalise to recoup, or else whats the point!

Im ok with this. Im not ok with shadow tactics, however if companies are open with the aspects of their product, and i can follow it logicly & clearly see it based on my own test, then im happy to embrace it. It doesn't mean i'll physiclly deploy it, however its the culmination of knowledge that defines us as aquarius. Call it knowledgable benchmarking if you will. It all adds to the total picture of cause & effect, & hence, im now aware of a new means to tackle a known issue. Its really as simple as that!

What we need more of is knowledgable aquarius to question all aspects. Its keeps the rest honest
 
[QUOTE='vspec';436357;6]lets drop it down a slight notch, we're all friends here & kinda feels like the air can almost be cut with a knife.

You guys bring up valid points, and the aspect that matters is your questioning things around you - so its always the correct step in the right dirrection.

Science has infiltrated this hobby, just like any other aspect that can potentially turn over profits. From a total aquatic perspective, salt water has overtaken freshwater by a long shot in this regards. Yes company research provides the funding in alot of cases, however as always, R&D costs money, so they have to capitalise to recoup, or else whats the point!

Im ok with this. Im not ok with shadow tactics, however if companies are open with the aspects of their product, and i can follow it logicly & clearly see it based on my own test, then im happy to embrace it. It doesn't mean i'll physiclly deploy it, however its the culmination of knowledge that defines us as aquarius. Call it knowledgable benchmarking if you will. It all adds to the total picture of cause & effect, & hence, im now aware of a new means to tackle a known issue. Its really as simple as that!

What we need more of is knowledgable aquarius to question all aspects. Its keeps the rest honest[/QUOTE]

Definitely! I'm sure a good deal of chemical filtration products out there ARE bogus, but if you didn't know anything about fish and walked into a fish store, how would you know? There is a "miracle fix" for every little thing in your aquarium, and many of them can screw up your tank a lot worse than what you were trying to fix!
 
Well, whatever this direction is, I feel compelled to add that if I lived in a drought-ridden urban wasteland like much of the southern mid-west where tap water is recycled to death, I'd be trying out all sorts of metal absorbers, phosphate absorbers, etc. I am lucky to live in Everett Wa where the water is pretty much amazon from the tap after it degases.
 
knifegill;4363630; said:
Well, whatever this direction is, I feel compelled to add that if I lived in a drought-ridden urban wasteland like much of the southern mid-west where tap water is recycled to death, I'd be trying out all sorts of metal absorbers, phosphate absorbers, etc. I am lucky to live in Everett Wa where the water is pretty much amazon from the tap after it degases.
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Yup, I'm the in pac NW too, water here is great! Don't know how many places you can drink tap water straight from the tap and not mind it!;)
 
I've alway been curious about SeaChem's Prime and Denitrate. I have heard great things about Prime and I know a lot of people use it, but I tried it with no luck really. I was on vacation and someone else was looking after my fish and the tanks got nasty. I tried Prime to see if that would help any and I didn't see any changes really. Water Changes helped (obviously), but I wanted to see if Chemical.
As for denitrate, I have never tried it, has anyone tried it?
 
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