Oscar not growing

[LukeOscar]

I've kept 3 Oscar in my time in the hobby and always found them very easy to care for and to be a rewarding fun fish to have. I rehomed the first when I moved out of state, lost 2nd to velvet fish disease and that was a lesson learned to QT new fish, and I still have the third and he's doing well. I don't mean to sound harsh but if you've had 4 oscars all die on you in a couple years and obtained them as juvies I'd say you may be doing something wrong somewhere in the process. I'm no expert but I don't think deformities and illness like HITH are genetic, or lfs bad luck. Ime they're causes by how the fish are being kept and cared for.

I do wish you luck with this latest one.

you could be very right about Hith not being genetic. but deformations are 100% genetic. thats why good breeders cull in the first place.

Oscar simply were not meant for you i guess. Did you get all those other fish from the same lfs? Maybe branch out?...

they have all been 2" or so from local fish stores. you may be right about hith not being genetic. but deformations is 100% genetic. its literally one of the reasons why culling exists. also poor genetics can cause poor immune systems.

 

[Nickavfc]

Haha! That will be a good day!

BTW, I think profanity was probably invented when somebody with a big tank full of fast fish tried to catch one of 'em. It's a recipe for wet pants and shirts, water slopped everywhere and harsh language. I use really big nets and then catch whatever I'm shooting for in a smaller net inside the big net. Short handled fly fisherman's nets work pretty well sometimes. Catfish and plecos don't get stuck on the silicone rubber type mesh. Probabilities class was a long time back but if I'm recalling correctly you should have a 100% probability of catching the right fish by the 25th time a fish has been caught in that trap. Or not.

yea thats right i can forsee the potential disaster that waits for me with the wet jeans ect tbh im pretty aware the trap wont work as well as advertised, my other option is to remove the oscar instead if the dempsey

 

[Deadeye]

yea thats right i can forsee the potential disaster that waits for me with the wet jeans ect tbh im pretty aware the trap wont work as well as advertised, my other option is to remove the oscar instead if the dempsey

If you aren’t able to upgrade, a Jack will be much more suitable in a 90 gal in the long run than the other two cichlids.

 

[duanes]

When I was working as a microbiologist, I did a few experiments growing swabs of HITH bacteria in different agar pHs, and nutrient levels for my own interest as an aquarist, and as a microbiologist knowing the limitations of pH on certain bacterial species.

I found using a high nutrient agar with a pH above 7.5, to 8, the HITH bacteria grew rather well.

Using a lower pH, lower nutrient agar, (pH below 7.5 down to 6.8), HITH bacteria grew , but not as vigorously.

But using an agar with a pH below 6, and low nutrient agar, HITH limited growth severely.

This led me to the conclusion that Oscars kept in the soft, low pH water, with frequent water changes (similar to that of their natural riverine habitat) would be less prone to the disease.
But Oscars kept in harder, high pH water seemed very prone to HITH.

Add the nitrate concentrations accepted by many aquarists as OK, due to less frequent water changes, and you get HITH soup.

Although there may be some validity to the genetic predisposition, in some cases due to in-breeding over the last 100 years Oscars have been kept in aquaia,
I lean toward either low quality, or aberrant water parameters compared to what Oscars have evolved in over millennia, to be the main cause.

 

[LukeOscar]

When I was working as a microbiologist, I did a few experiments growing swabs of HITH bacteria in different agar pHs, and nutrient levels for my own interest as an aquarist, and as a microbiologist knowing the limitations of pH on certain bacterial species.

I found using a high nutrient agar with a pH above 7.5, to 8, the HITH bacteria grew rather well.

Using a lower pH, lower nutrient agar, (pH below 7.5 down to 6.8), HITH bacteria grew , but not as vigorously.

But using an agar with a pH below 6, and low nutrient agar, HITH limited growth severely.

This led me to the conclusion that Oscars kept in the soft, low pH water, with frequent water changes (similar to that of their natural riverine habitat) would be less prone to the disease.
But Oscars kept in harder, high pH water seemed very prone to HITH.

Add the nitrate concentrations accepted by many aquarists as OK, due to less frequent water changes, and you get HITH soup.

Although their may be some validity to genetic predisposition, in some cases due to in-breeding over the last 100 years Oscars have been kept i aquaia,
I lean toward either low quality, or aberrant water parameters compared to what Oscars have evolved in over millennia, to be the main cause.

its an interesting take on it. the Jag i posted the other day was bought from the same store the same day as the oscar i currently own. both are simular in size. the jag is very healthy and thriving. many good comments on him here on MFK. the oscar even though has grown just as fast if not slightly faster. is missing a good portion of his face from Hith. tanks on a drip system that drips about 20 gallons a day.

 

[duanes]

its an interesting take on it. the Jag i posted the other day was bought from the same store the same day as the oscar i currently own. both are simular in size. the jag is very healthy and thriving. many good comments on him here on MFK. the oscar even though has grown just as fast if not slightly faster. is missing a good portion of his face from Hith. tanks on a drip system that drips about 20 gallons a day.

But the managuense, JDs and other cichlids that come from high pH, mineral rich soup in Central America, have evolved to resist bacteria and soupy parameters, an oscar little to no tolerance for being from S America.

When you compare the water test from Central America (above), where Parachromis have evolved to come from, and lived over millions of years, with the water in S America where Oscars evolved, below, the difference is like night and day. So the idea that they belong in the same tank, is not reasonable, especially if you have average US or British water parameters.


I also test nitrate where I collect, and have yet to find non-polluted area, where nitrate is even detectable.

The tube on the right, is nitrate concentration in the Pacora river, Panama.

 

[Jon M]

you could be very right about Hith not being genetic. but deformations are 100% genetic. thats why good breeders cull in the first place.

they have all been 2" or so from local fish stores. you may be right about hith not being genetic. but deformations is 100% genetic. its literally one of the reasons why culling exists. also poor genetics can cause poor immune systems.

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the kind of deformities I've seen from cramped quarters, like broke back Arowana's, etc. No doubt there are genetic deformities as well. I would think for the most part, most lfs in a specific area are getting from the same supplier or fish farm generally. I know when I see something I don't normally see in a lfs I'll usually see it around other lfs at the same time frame as well. You know what I mean? Like, I saw some FL Gar in a lfs in Merritt Island once, at 7-8". I was really surprised because they don't normally keep fish like that, then I saw same fish, same size at another lfs the same week. What I'm suggesting is if it truly was a problem with the batches the lfs received, going to another one near by may present the same issue. Want me to send ya an Oscar from down here in FL since I've always had np with mine?

 

[Iwhoopedbatman]

Mildly high nitrates and some bullying that isn't blaringly obvious are not reason enough for other cichlids to grow while an oscar does not. Jacks are among the slower growing 'large' cichlids and oscars among the fastest. If jacks are out pacing an oscar in growth there is something wrong. If the oscar isn't just hidden away all day long with torn up fins, there is something else going on than stress.

 

[pacu mom]

Ok thank

Ok thankyou for your detailed reply im new to the game but im learning fast , i do test the water especially ammonia levels il definitely do a bigger water change next time , my filter under the tank is huge and water is clear im determined not to mess up with this , their fins are up and colour is good but im definitely going to do a bigger water change next , thanks for your reply

If your tank is cycled, i.e., there is enough nitrifying bacteria in the filtration system, there will be no measurable ammonia or nitrite. Hence there is almost no need to routinely test for ammonia and nitrite in a tank unless you suspect an uncycled condition. However, nitrates (the end product in the nitrogen cycle) will keep rising. The frequency and volume of your water changes should be determined by how fast the nitrates rise in your tank and what your predetermined maximum level of nitrate is. A majority of fishkeepers aim at keeping nitrates below 20ppm, others prefer nitrate levels less than 5ppm. High nitrates have been implicated in stunting, failure to thrive and premature death of fish, so routine testing for nitrates and enough water changes to keep nitrates low should be done to provide a healthy environment for your fish.