Over-dosing Prime reduces oxygen??

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
We have all had the opportunity to review the same information and come to our individual conclusions…

It doesn’t bother me at all that some people may come to a different conclusion than me after reviewing the information…
What does bother me is when someone suggests that chemical processes such as biodegrading, oxidization or evaporation are “magical” or “defy logic”. This is an illogical attempt to discredit valid information with no intellectual or valid merit.

Without knowing specific details about Prime’s chemistry which is a ‘trade secret’ none of us have access to… as well as a very specific understanding of the chemicals involved… none of us (myself included) can make any factual conclusions.

BigSpizz… there is logic to your perspective of how Prime may remain in the system… I only wish you were big enough to admit the same about their perspective as opposed to pretending that science is “magical” or “defies logic”.

coeus;3268458; said:
i have a thought problem for you, if the prime is just sitting in the tank, and the fish always excrete ammonia, isnt it going to come into contact with the ammonia fairly shortly? wether you have a well cycled tank or not the bacteria colony isnt going to reach the ammonia immediately so the prime should be attaching itself to the ammonia to be broken down by the bacteria in any aquarium, just my 2 cents :P

That makes complete sense Coeus… If Prime did build up… as the fish constantly produce ammonia, the reducing agent would be spent binding that ammonia and making it ‘non toxic’…

Questioning the advertising claims of any manufacturer makes sense… But if what they claim makes sense and is possible, it’s only fair to give it credit that it might be possible…

In other words BigSpizz... I'm not saying that you are wrong... I am saying that you are suggesting they cannot be right on false merit...
 
No I am not....I am saying that THEY CHANGED WHAT THEY TELL PEOPLE....What is so hard to understand about that? You are taking what they are saying, and buying it wholesale..Good for you.

The quote from their site clearly shows they "sling mud"......
 
First off, I have never read anywhere from a Seachem Rep that they said anything other than what I'm hearing them say now... I will admit there are others suggesting they have heard them say otherwise... but I'm questioning the authenticity of that information. That is not to say I think anyone is "lying" or even that anyone is "wrong"... I only said I am questioning it...

Next, IF they have changed what they say… is it possible they have changed their recipe?…

And in addition to suggesting Seachem has changed what they tell people, you have said that scientific processes “defy logic” and are “magical” and I disrespect the way you have downplayed science as something that is logical or real… I wish you would have acknowledged that and admitted your exaggeration…

Also if you read what I have clearly explained (over explained I admit) I am not “buying what they say” I am accepting it to be a logical possibility… and I am accepting that user experience supports this possibility making it a probability…

As for the “mud slinging” quote… It really helps if you post a link to the quote so others can not only confirm the quote but see the context in which it is stated. Also without doing adequate research to see if the statement is true… ya really have no basis to criticize it…
 
sostoudt;3264984; said:
if it pleases the forum i found a thread here from a year ago. where a seachem rep says it reduces oxygen when over dosing.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131344
email
sounds alot like spizz was saying

nc_nutcase;3268867; said:
First off, I have never read anywhere from a Seachem Rep that they said anything other than what I'm hearing them say now... I will admit there are others suggesting they have heard them say otherwise... but I'm questioning the authenticity of that information. That is not to say I think anyone is "lying" or even that anyone is "wrong"... I only said I am questioning it...

Next, IF they have changed what they say… is it possible they have changed their recipe?…

And in addition to suggesting Seachem has changed what they tell people, you have said that scientific processes “defy logic” and are “magical” and I disrespect the way you have downplayed science as something that is logical or real… I wish you would have acknowledged that and admitted your exaggeration…

Also if you read what I have clearly explained (over explained I admit) I am not “buying what they say” I am accepting it to be a logical possibility… and I am accepting that user experience supports this possibility making it a probability…

As for the “mud slinging” quote… It really helps if you post a link to the quote so others can not only confirm the quote but see the context in which it is stated. Also without doing adequate research to see if the statement is true… ya really have no basis to criticize it…





Honestly..Can you sum it up please? Maybe you missed this the first time it was posted....PM japes and see if the E-mail was "real":ROFL:



Bold, I couldn't care less how you feel about what I think. What they say sounds good, but yes that would be a magical way to dispose of unused prime..Does it "biodegrade" (in 24-48 hours)? Does it "evaporate"? Does it "oxidize away"? All three were sold to you, and you bought them all...Which is it?
 
so... now that bigspizz has been offered multiple possible explanations (biodegrades..oxidizes...evaporates...reacts with a continuing supply of ammonia and nitrite) he is embarking on the vary thing he is accusing Seachem of.... a smear campaign.

dude...a competitor 'slings mud' about a Seachem product so they sling back and you use this to attempt to tarnish Seachems honesty/reliability? gimme a break

that is what the quote you posted says right? That Seachem defended themselves from a competitor who was attempting to tarnish Flourite?

bigspizz you repeat yourself once again and say
I still stand by what I know.

so I repeat.... what do you know? please enlighten us with something other than the broad statement that once you put it in there it is in there forever and beyond. Which simply is not true IMO but hey if I am wrong then explain to me why.

you seem to be on a mission now to tarnish Primes reputation to the point of being paranoid with imaginary supporters who sit back and watch you take on the world.

I would be more than glad to agree with you bigspizz....just offer up some proof / explanation to support your claim and defy Seachems

man this thread makes me wish I was a chemist haha

you have used the term 'dilution' several times
link me to a definition of 'dilution' which explains what you are saying....that no biological or chemical processes take place to remove excess Prime
 
bigspizz;3268888; said:
What they say sounds good, but yes that would be a magical way to dispose of unused prime..Does it "biodegrade" (in 24-48 hours)? Does it "evaporate"? Does it "oxidize away"? All three were sold to you, and you bought them all...Which is it?


ummm which isn't it?
and why?
 
So in your mind/world biodegrading, evaporating and oxidization are magic... That clarifies a lot...

Honestly... I can sum it up...

The message Japes quotes in that thread directly opposes what is clearly stated on the every bottle of Prime... therefore I do not give that post one ounce of credit. Either it did not come from a Seachem Rep as stated or it came from a Seachem Rep who was misinformed... or it's based on very old information as I know the bottle has suggested to ‘dose for the full volume of the tank when adding tap water directly to the tank’ for many years...

Feel free to go read your bottle to verify that… It’s on the right side under “Directions” about half way down…
 
M.G. M.G. - may I interject? I have a query. I hear so many using Prime & with practically no probs.

I am wondering after reading thru all the posts that this issue has been thoroughly researched debated contradicted validated verified nullified consulted theorized magicfied bashing touchy feely sorry not sorry opposed agreed unopposed stupiefied amazement wonderment resignation indignation and so on and so on and so on...

Here is my simple Q? - I will be embarking on a very challenging endeavor - raising discus juvies (starting tomorrow morning when my shipment arrives) which will require frequent tremendous massive arduous time consuming pain in the butt water changes for a 72gal. bowfront - right now I have a JBL siphon hose/vac & am looking to buy the Python 25'. When I start doing my WC (i.e. 50% WC) -

1. do I add Prime b-4 adding the water
2. while adding the water or
3. after finishing adding the water
&
4. do I dose on the additive/replacement water or dosage on the full tank?

In my case I will not have a receptacle large enough to store water which can be pre-dosed with Prime. I will be forced to add NYS tap water directly. So I am very concerned on the timing of dosage.

I don't yet have Prime - so another Q?

- should I get 1gal or 2L bottle & any online seller suggestions that would have the near best price (incl. added shipping cost) - I recall someone stated the 2L is good for 20,000 gallons so I should consider this size? damn that will be one expensive water bill!!

I apologize if I missed the answer(s) in the various dialogues posted here.

I thank you ALL for your guidance. If you care to PM your advice instead of clogging up this thread to handle my query plse feel free to do so!

p.s. I am a 40+ year hobbyist but just got back into it earlier this yr after a 17yr hiatus & 22yr discus absence - so I am an "oldie newbie" or is it "newbie oldie"??!!

:>)
 
this thread has gone outta control! prime is better at what it is supposed to do than any water conditioner and works great as an emergency if you have spikes in your parameters. if you are that worried about it depleting your oxygen levels, don't dose over the recommended levels and add an airstone. really, has anyone ever lost a fish to dosing prime and can prove that it was solely the prime that killed them? i use this stuff for all my tanks, including very sensitive CRS and i never have any issues due to the prime. i will not stand behind seachem, b/c i have used other products by them i don't like but for the most part, i think prime is great and that they do have other effective products.
 
Personally, I think this thread could use a healthy derailment…

sushiray;3269043; said:
1. do I add Prime b-4 adding the water
2. while adding the water or
3. after finishing adding the water
&
4. do I dose on the additive/replacement water or dosage on the full tank?

Put whatever value on this you wish… but Printed on the side of the bottle of Prime it says…

May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume.

The bottle recommends dosing for the full volume of the tank when refilling directly to the tank… Personally I approximately dose for double the amount of gallons I am adding to the tank, up to the full volume of the tank… for example, if I replaced 35 gallons in a 100 gallon tank, I would use the amount of Prime suggested for 70 gallons… But if I added 60 gallons to a 100 gallon tank I would add the dosage for 100 gallons…

I add half of the amount of Prime to the tank water as soon as I begin refilling… then half way through the refill I add the other half…

As I consider Prime to be a harmless product, I approximate all of these numbers measuring by the cap full or at times even adding just a splash straight to the tank. I haven’t counted drops in many years…

So per the label on the bottle I under-dose. I originally did this because I suspected that it is very possible Seachem is encouraging us to use a bit more product than we truly ‘need’ in order to get us to need another bottle sooner, rather than later. I expect manufacturers to make minor manipulations such as this… No harm no foul…

I suggest you follow the directions given on the bottle, but also feel it worth sharing my personal experience… Many others have stated how they overdose by up to 3 or 4 times the recommended dosage on a regular basis for the reasoning of gaining benefits from the other qualities Prime offers such as “binding” ammonia and nitrite and they also share no ill results from doing so…

I know several people through my local fish club that breed Discus and most or all of them adjust and stabilize water in a secondary container prior to doing water changes. Unless your tap water ‘naturally’ has the parameters you intend to keep the Discus at I would encourage you to consider this. If you aren’t doing anything to adjust water chemistry then skipping this step and adding tap water/Prime straight to the tank may work just fine.
 
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