"Overstock" Successfully!

[terd ferguson]

Scientific proof of what part? You quoted several things…

Terd - You cannot claim to take a more natural approach when you have that many fish in a 190 gallons of space… that is utterly unnatural… I’m not saying it’s bad or wrong, but utterly unnatural…

Although I must mention I respect that you are considering the fish’s interests by providing proper temperature and hiding places, which I think is simply proper fish keeping and doing otherwise is… less than proper fish keeping…

Pwmin - that is hardly an analogy between people and fish… It was a summary sentence at the end of a logical point.

Terd - just to clarify, my approach is to lightly stock big tanks… and also to use ample décor… this other unnatural method is not mine, just one that I understand and have used in my youth…

John Rambo - for someone who doesn’t support the concept of overstocking but has experience doing so… it’s difficult to avoid the debate but I’m doing my best! lol

Toby,

You are correct when you say I can't claim the more natural approach with so many fishes. But, I am trying to take a natural approach to acheive an un-natural stocking level. I hope that makes sense.

I didn't mean to insinuate you keep overstocked bare tanks now. Sorry if you misunderstood me.

 

[John Rambo]

John Rambo - for someone who doesn’t support the concept of overstocking but has experience doing so… it’s difficult to avoid the debate but I’m doing my best! lol[/quote]

yea I know, I would rather have a tank for each one of my fish but that would mean dozens of tanks! That wont happen until I win the lotto, this sat. So until then I must overstock. Its been working only for a few days, so I'm very watchful for now. As far as the decoration rule, I am trying both with and without. So far, territories are being made and some fighting happening. I might need to remove them again. Thanks for all the opinions. Overstocking so far has not been the easiest thing.

 

[cchhcc]

Have you guys ever read your own posts? Some of them surely sound like you're trying to convince yourselves that overstocking is O.K. while at the same time not really believing it.

Things like "naturally providing for an unnatural situation" and stuff like that sounds like double-speak to me. But the worst excuse used to rationalize your practices is "because I'd have to have dozens of tanks and I can't afford that."

Enjoy your fishkeeping, but don't fool yourselves along the way! It is what it is...

 

[terd ferguson]

Have you guys ever read your own posts? Some of them surely sound like you're trying to convince yourselves that overstocking is O.K. while at the same time not really believing it.

Things like "naturally providing for an unnatural situation" and stuff like that sounds like double-speak to me. But the worst excuse used to rationalize your practices is "because I'd have to have dozens of tanks and I can't afford that."

Enjoy your fishkeeping, but don't fool yourselves along the way! It is what it is...

Oversticking Africans to reduce aggression is a long accepted standard practice. How is that any different in regards to CA/SA's?

As far as the "double speak" you refer to "naturally providing for an unnatural situation", it's nothing I do differently for my tanks that aren't overstocked. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people think you should do "unnatural" things to make the fishes uncomfortable to reduce aggression (lower temps, no cover/hiding spots, no live feeders, etc.). I believe the opposite is better for the fishes, making them "happier", which means less stress, which means one less reason for them to flip out. I could've picked a better way to explain it than in the original post, but I think you get my point. My apologies.

It is not, in my opinion "unnatural" to have more than two or three big aggro cichla in the same tank. After all, they all live together in the wild. And before someone says "yeah, but there's a lot more water in the wild", at the end of the day we ALL keep fishes in tiny glass boxes too small for them. The difference between 2 fishes in a 125 and 10 fishes in a 240 is miniscule compared to their natural habitats (millions of gallons). We're talking tiny fractions of a percent.

As long as the water quality stays excellent and the fishes are healthy and not killing one another, what's the problem with overstocking if it allows you to have a beautiful, active tank? I'd rather have my tank with all it's different personalities any day than a tank with two fishes hiding behind a piece of driftwood all day.

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[pwmin]

It is unnatural for fish to be in an aquarium, period, so I don't know why we're arguing about what's "natural"

 

[terd ferguson]

It is unnatural for fish to be in an aquarium, period, so I don't know why we're arguing about what's "natural"

That's a better way to make the point I was trying to get accross. With that said, given the choice between a bare, cold tank with little food and a warm tank with tons of hiding spots and lots of food, which do you think the fishes would choose?

 

[John Rambo]

hey everyone, this thread is about how to do it, not why one should not, but people will try to explain and derail like cchhcc. So from now on, everyone else please just stick to posts refering to the subject. No need to defend your overstocking reasons to anyone.
thanks.

 

[pwmin]

i understand what youre saying, terd.

hey everyone, this thread is about how to do it, not why one should not, but people will try to explain and derail like cchhcc. So from now on, everyone else please just stick to posts refering to the subject. No need to defend your overstocking reasons to anyone.
thanks.

this thread def. is headed in the wrong direction. i could see it being locked if it continues in the manner it has been.

 

[terd ferguson]

i understand what youre saying, terd.


this thread def. is headed in the wrong direction. i could see it being locked if it continues in the manner it has been.

I'll try to get it going back in the right direction.

When choosing fishes to go into your community, keep in mind certain species are known to be more murderous than others. The Red Devil and Flowerhorn come to mind. I've heard more murder stories from these two than most others. Sometimes a fish's reputation is warranted.

When choosing a certain specimen out of a tank full of fishes in your lfs (for instance, choosing a Green Terror out of a tank full of GT's), stay there for a while and watch the tank's dynamics. Pick a fish that is "laid back". Don't pick the tank bully. Conversely, don't pick the tank runt. Runts usually come with health problems. I know watching some fishes in a fish store for a half hour won't give you a perfect idea of how they'll act in your tank today or next week or next year, but it's better than blindly choosing.

When adding a new fish to your established tank, turn the lights off for a while. Your old fish will be curious and the first few minutes after an introduction can be crucial. Leaving the lights off may help a new fish from being ganged up on on all sides by your other fishes.

A lot of this seems like common sense and things most should already know, but you never know. The more positive things you can do, the better your chances will be. I'll add some more later.

 

[cchhcc]

i understand what youre saying, terd.


this thread def. is headed in the wrong direction. i could see it being locked if it continues in the manner it has been.

Yes..... Definitely lock it if there are any posts that aren't synonomous with the original post.