Paratheraps sp. catemaco ?
- Thread starter Webley
- Start date
There has been alot of debate on that ,a while back when i posted them there was a big debate on this subject.
I have owned sp. catemaco and pink fenestratus.I have pink fenestratus now.
I have seen both fish side by side and this is the difference that i see(of course i am no scientist ,just my personal side by side comparison)
1.fenestratus seem to grow larger,by alot(my sp.catemaco male maxed out at 8",my fenestratus males seem to grow way larger 10"+)
2.fenestratus fry has more horizontal barring than sp. catemaco(more vertical barring)
3.sp. catemaco males seem to develop a larger hump on their head than fenestratus(none of my pink fenestratus seem to develop humps at all)
4.fenestratus seem to vary more in color than sp. catemaco
In my opinion i think sp. catemaco is a smaller less colorful race of fenestratus.
Now info from things that i have read and things that was brought up in the other thread.
1.lake catemaco has volcanic divides that may isolate fish from each othe at certain times of year(i guess water levels cut of certain parts of the lake)
2.all fenestratus come from the same lake(not sure why fish from the same lake can be so different)
3.There are a few referrences to a different race of fenestratus that can be found with a little research
4.I have copies of older paper work that refer to a different race(but they are older not sure if they were proven or disproven)
5.there are folks on this site that dispute any fish you get from don conkel(so be prepared tohave folks dis your fish you post from don,been going through that with folks on this site for a few years now)
6.the same fish is also referenced as a conkeli in several books(not officially named after don conkel,but apparently he is credited for the fish)seperate from fenestratus.
All i can say is do your own research and see what you come up with,I personally see them as a different race others may not,i base my opinion from side by side comparisions(but as i said i am no scientist and i have to trust the word of the people i buy fish from and so far don conkel has never given me any reasn to doubt what he says,all fish i have from him are top notch specimens,and i have never been dissapointed)
I have owned sp. catemaco and pink fenestratus.I have pink fenestratus now.
I have seen both fish side by side and this is the difference that i see(of course i am no scientist ,just my personal side by side comparison)
1.fenestratus seem to grow larger,by alot(my sp.catemaco male maxed out at 8",my fenestratus males seem to grow way larger 10"+)
2.fenestratus fry has more horizontal barring than sp. catemaco(more vertical barring)
3.sp. catemaco males seem to develop a larger hump on their head than fenestratus(none of my pink fenestratus seem to develop humps at all)
4.fenestratus seem to vary more in color than sp. catemaco
In my opinion i think sp. catemaco is a smaller less colorful race of fenestratus.
Now info from things that i have read and things that was brought up in the other thread.
1.lake catemaco has volcanic divides that may isolate fish from each othe at certain times of year(i guess water levels cut of certain parts of the lake)
2.all fenestratus come from the same lake(not sure why fish from the same lake can be so different)
3.There are a few referrences to a different race of fenestratus that can be found with a little research
4.I have copies of older paper work that refer to a different race(but they are older not sure if they were proven or disproven)
5.there are folks on this site that dispute any fish you get from don conkel(so be prepared tohave folks dis your fish you post from don,been going through that with folks on this site for a few years now)
6.the same fish is also referenced as a conkeli in several books(not officially named after don conkel,but apparently he is credited for the fish)seperate from fenestratus.
All i can say is do your own research and see what you come up with,I personally see them as a different race others may not,i base my opinion from side by side comparisions(but as i said i am no scientist and i have to trust the word of the people i buy fish from and so far don conkel has never given me any reasn to doubt what he says,all fish i have from him are top notch specimens,and i have never been dissapointed)
Thanks buddha for all your help.
I will see how they turn out, but for now, I will suppose they are sp. catemaco. Do you have some photos of some fry or youngsters of your couple? So I can compare, please.
The regani in my avatar I pick up from google, but I have 5 growing atm, I love the species, it's my favorite cichlid
I like bocourti too, but I just have one alone, and it's young. The one in your avatar is yours? It's gorgeous!
I will see how they turn out, but for now, I will suppose they are sp. catemaco. Do you have some photos of some fry or youngsters of your couple? So I can compare, please.
The regani in my avatar I pick up from google, but I have 5 growing atm, I love the species, it's my favorite cichlid
I like bocourti too, but I just have one alone, and it's young. The one in your avatar is yours? It's gorgeous!
That catemaco is very beautiful! 
And the bocourti is stunning!
I have all of my fish in a garage and today I have put a new and better light on the sp. catemaco fry, I couldn't take a photo but, now I noticed that the fry aren't fenestratus color at all, they are turning white and in some of them I notice a little pink. It's very nice to see the changes on this species, but I hope I will have some like yours.
Do you notice a difference between the catemaco's and fenestratus catemaco cheek? I noticed on your old pair and in mine that it shows a little red marking on the cheek of the catemaco, but in photos of fenestratus catemaco I can't see the same thing. Do you notice the difference in yours?
Sorry about my english, it's a bit rusty.
And the bocourti is stunning!I have all of my fish in a garage and today I have put a new and better light on the sp. catemaco fry, I couldn't take a photo but, now I noticed that the fry aren't fenestratus color at all, they are turning white and in some of them I notice a little pink. It's very nice to see the changes on this species, but I hope I will have some like yours.
Do you notice a difference between the catemaco's and fenestratus catemaco cheek? I noticed on your old pair and in mine that it shows a little red marking on the cheek of the catemaco, but in photos of fenestratus catemaco I can't see the same thing. Do you notice the difference in yours?
Sorry about my english, it's a bit rusty.
Good article on the subject from Cichlid Room Companion: http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=23
"Despite the difficulties, we managed to collect specimens in the 4-6" size range of both the normal and oligomelanic varieties of the P. fenestratus * type species present. These cichlids differ significantly from the P. fenestratus found throughout the Papaloapan drainage. The Catemaco forms presumably evolved from the riverine type following a period of isolation resulting from the creation of the volcanic crater. Probably a new species, the Catemaco form differs from the riverine fenestratum most notably in its more gradually-sloping dorsal profile and * in wild-caught specimens * its more fleshy lips. Also, the rosy-pink morph is not known in the "conventional" riverine P. fenestratus. The normal-colored morph of the Catemaco fenestratum appears to be much more prevalent than the pink form, based on our collecting results. Alas, all the Catemaco specimens collected were too large for transport back to Cleveland and had to be left at Juan Miguel's house. At least that gave me a reason to return to Catemaco!"
Cronkel has been farming these, it sounds like, from stock collected in the late '80s...
Matt
"Despite the difficulties, we managed to collect specimens in the 4-6" size range of both the normal and oligomelanic varieties of the P. fenestratus * type species present. These cichlids differ significantly from the P. fenestratus found throughout the Papaloapan drainage. The Catemaco forms presumably evolved from the riverine type following a period of isolation resulting from the creation of the volcanic crater. Probably a new species, the Catemaco form differs from the riverine fenestratum most notably in its more gradually-sloping dorsal profile and * in wild-caught specimens * its more fleshy lips. Also, the rosy-pink morph is not known in the "conventional" riverine P. fenestratus. The normal-colored morph of the Catemaco fenestratum appears to be much more prevalent than the pink form, based on our collecting results. Alas, all the Catemaco specimens collected were too large for transport back to Cleveland and had to be left at Juan Miguel's house. At least that gave me a reason to return to Catemaco!"
Cronkel has been farming these, it sounds like, from stock collected in the late '80s...
Matt
Hello.
Just a little update regarding the catemacos fry.
Just some of the fry changed color, a large part is Fenestratus color and some are turning Fenestratus red head, this means mine are Paratheraps fenestratus "Catemaco"?
Some are pretty big, about 4".
Some pictures.
Male Paratheraps Catemaco:
Female Paratheraps Catemaco:
young Paratheraps Catemaco:
Just a little update regarding the catemacos fry.
Just some of the fry changed color, a large part is Fenestratus color and some are turning Fenestratus red head, this means mine are Paratheraps fenestratus "Catemaco"?
Some are pretty big, about 4".
Some pictures.
Male Paratheraps Catemaco:
Female Paratheraps Catemaco:
young Paratheraps Catemaco:
