Pellets

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Hmmm, I personally think that it's good to make a fish work a bit for their food. But to each their own. I'm not a fan of bug bites for a number of reasons, I trialed them when they first hit the market, and posted what I felt were pros & cons in the following past discussion. Not that you asked for my opinion, just thought that you might be interested. If not, disregard. lol
Cool, thanks for the perspective and info for BBs. I only got it because the previous owner fed it to my Trimac and she was spitting out the NLS and Omega one. She loves the BB for some reason. My O still gets the the NLS and yeah I don’t mind him working for it but he misses some of them and I end up having to do clean up, so more work for me!
 
I work away so I get my wife to feed the boring old staple pellets, which I use northfin, I think it's one of the better ones out there. When I am home I feed the entertaining stuff, worms spread all round the tank and watch the fish dig through leafs to find them, crickets on floating plants and the chocolates will spend hours pulling each plant underwater to see if there on it. A bit of enrichment for the fish and something I enjoy, watching them use there brains. I used to think a strict pellet diet was the best thing for them, now I am not so sure.
 
Cool, thanks for the perspective and info for BBs. I only got it because the previous owner fed it to my Trimac and she was spitting out the NLS and Omega one. She loves the BB for some reason.

Most likely due to the high fat content.


Mr Pleco Mr Pleco , while you may consider me a brand bigot (I actually feed a number of foods - gasp!) I try and always be as accurate as possible in these discussions. Much more so than most folks. I have tested several of the new NLS formulas and sizes, and in my tank none take overly long to sink. I get it, it's a PITA to those with sumps, but let's keep it real.….


From a past discussion;

I just completed some tests, under calm still water, with no agitation, using randomly chosen pellets from a pre Naturox formula (2mm AlgaeMax) and a post Naturox formula (3mm Large Fish), and in both tests approx. half of the pellets floated.

With the Large Fish formula I used 80 pellets, in a bucket containing approx. 4 gallons of water. I placed the pellets in my hand, and flipped my hand over from approx. 6-8" above the pail. While many pellets immediately sunk, 38 remained floating, for several minutes. The same result with the 2mm AlgaeMax. After just seconds of dropping the pellets in to the bucket, a slight swirl of the hand sent the rest plummeting down. After giving a short swirl in the water 2 floaters remained in the AlgaeMax group, none in the Large Fish.

If my experiment took place in one of my tanks, even with all filters off, and my fish thrashed the surface as they generally do, that would have caused 98.75% of the pellets that I tested, to sink immediately.

I was testing in the calm water of a 5 gallon bucket. In my experiment a light swirl from my fingers caused all but two of the 160 pellets tested, to sink. So 2 pellets out of 160 tested with movement applied, floated back up, or at least didn't sink right away. I didn't time how long those two pellets took to sink, because I honestly didn't care. 158 sank. If that's a fail, it is an acceptable failure rate to me. If my math is correct 1.25% failed in my test, 98.75% worked exactly as I would expect them to work in the vast majority of aquarium settings, including mine.

In my tanks the surface agitation from an AC filter causes my NLS pellets to pretty much all sink immediately, which is why I have personally never experienced any issues with feeding any NLS formula, big or small, over the 15 or so odd years that I have been feeding this brand. Also, I tested with a pre Naturox formula, and a post Naturox formula, for whatever that's worth to anyone. The newer, post Naturox formula did slightly better, but two pellets out of 160 doesn't even make a blip on my radar. In a tank, with typical hungry fish feeding activity, and/or surface agitation, personally I would never notice.
 
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……… and the following was later posted by Ian.

Hi. This is Ian Tepoot from New Life Spectrum. I had noticed some concerns regarding buoyancy of our various generation products, new labeling, and customer satisfaction approach and wanted to chime in just to provide some clarification.

1. The labels on our newest generation foods have changed from labeled as "sinking" to listing the Buoyancy accompanied with the more precise description "High Density: Most Pellets Will Sink". We want to be clear that this isn't a response to a change in our pellet buoyancy.

For our new generation product, we decided it would be better to have a spec that provided greater clarity for users on what to expect with an organic product (and thus subject to natural variation from pellet to pellet) meant for aquariums -- each of which is a specific microcosm environment.

Our target is that our negative buoyancy pellets will majority sink under typical/common aquarium conditions. When we launched in 1996 this was the case, and it is the case now. In tanks with a moving water column and surface movement, this should be enough to overcome surface tension for most of the pellets.

As a side note: you may also notice that we did similar increased precision with our sizes, noting the specific size ranges you could expect from each class of pellet. We think these are improvements to our labeling.

2. We understand skepticism in general when companies claim to be improving -- such as with 'new pellet forming techniques'. We think it's healthy. And while true we aren't going to go to be publishing a how-to guide for creating our new pellets ;) there are a few items we can clarify:

- One of the improvements is less starch in favor of seaweed-based binders (which are more effective and nutritious). This is a big factor in the new technique because it creates a more water-stable pellet and expands less when it cools, making it closer to the 1mm hole it came out of. The combination of smaller surface area with existing density in our tests actually made them sink better than previous versions. However, again, different aquarium systems may cause any individual user's experience to be different.

- Naturox preserved proteins are more costly and premium. The Krill we used is actually without preservatives, and sourced using new techniques the don't use trawlers so they are fresher.

- We added a whole new protein to the mix: Squid

Together, these changes are the opposite of cutting corners.

As a side note: Our announcement and Q&A videos didn't go into depth regarding the specifics of our pellet forming techniques in the interest of length and general interest. However, for more serious hobbyists looking for more in-depth information, Hilary also now does an NLS livestream Mondays at 10:30 am EST on our YouTube channel where she answers your questions -- and I often monitor and can drop in if there's anything she can't answer.

3. Another factor that can affect any given pellet from sinking is dryness. All of our pellets are dried to between 5% and 9% moisture content. The more dry the surface, the more the film of water surface tension will repel and thus not immediately sink. Small variations can affect this: as mentioned, organic variance in natural products means pellets in which 100% of pellets sink 100% of the time when dropped in dry is not, nor has ever been, possible.

However, water with some surface movement definitely helps, and is the typical case. In our systems, it has never been an issue. If 'spiking' the food into the water to break the surface tension isn't for you, nor is swirling the pellets in water drawn for the aquarium and a auto-feeder is a requirement, a feeding ring under the outlet (store-bought or hand-crafted from a bit of air line tubing) can hold food in place until it moistens enough to sink. One surface tension is broken, the pellet density will take the pellets to the bottom.

4. I notice that many of the concerns expressed were re: Naturox Series, as was the reference to the new labeling. However, the product cited in this thread was part of our previous generation foods. Although we receive very few complaints of non-sinking foods in general, we work to improve the non-Float formula's negative buoyancy year over year, and have received positive feedback regarding Naturox in this regard. As we reduce wheat, seaweed-based binders are less dense -- which we have compensated with increased Omega-3 oil and other ingredients.

5. We were unhappy to hear that Alex had a negative experience, and we did offer from his first communication to replace the food sight unseen with our new series (with a request for a return so we could examine it for QA). I understand that he has moved on to a different brand, which if he feels it suits his needs better we totally understand.
 
Most likely due to the high fat content.


Mr Pleco Mr Pleco , while you may consider me a brand bigot (I actually feed a number of foods - gasp!) I try and always be as accurate as possible in these discussions. Much more so than most folks. I have tested several of the new NLS formulas and sizes, and in my tank none take overly long to sink. I get it, it's a PITA to those with sumps, but let's keep it real.….


From a past discussion;

I just completed some tests, under calm still water, with no agitation, using randomly chosen pellets from a pre Naturox formula (2mm AlgaeMax) and a post Naturox formula (3mm Large Fish), and in both tests approx. half of the pellets floated.

With the Large Fish formula I used 80 pellets, in a bucket containing approx. 4 gallons of water. I placed the pellets in my hand, and flipped my hand over from approx. 6-8" above the pail. While many pellets immediately sunk, 38 remained floating, for several minutes. The same result with the 2mm AlgaeMax. After just seconds of dropping the pellets in to the bucket, a slight swirl of the hand sent the rest plummeting down. After giving a short swirl in the water 2 floaters remained in the AlgaeMax group, none in the Large Fish.

If my experiment took place in one of my tanks, even with all filters off, and my fish thrashed the surface as they generally do, that would have caused 98.75% of the pellets that I tested, to sink immediately.

I was testing in the calm water of a 5 gallon bucket. In my experiment a light swirl from my fingers caused all but two of the 160 pellets tested, to sink. So 2 pellets out of 160 tested with movement applied, floated back up, or at least didn't sink right away. I didn't time how long those two pellets took to sink, because I honestly didn't care. 158 sank. If that's a fail, it is an acceptable failure rate to me. If my math is correct 1.25% failed in my test, 98.75% worked exactly as I would expect them to work in the vast majority of aquarium settings, including mine.

In my tanks the surface agitation from an AC filter causes my NLS pellets to pretty much all sink immediately, which is why I have personally never experienced any issues with feeding any NLS formula, big or small, over the 15 or so odd years that I have been feeding this brand. Also, I tested with a pre Naturox formula, and a post Naturox formula, for whatever that's worth to anyone. The newer, post Naturox formula did slightly better, but two pellets out of 160 doesn't even make a blip on my radar. In a tank, with typical hungry fish feeding activity, and/or surface agitation, personally I would never notice.
Of course you did and btw I never mentioned anyone or referred to anyone personally.......
 
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I don't think anyone could argue against Hikari having that accolade lol -- but the question still remains: why have they turned such deaf ears on the calls from so many to improve esp. the fillers in their products? With it being a Japanese company at heart I'd be surprised it being only an economic thing (though no doubts it's certainly a factor), because Japanese people/consumers themselves are generally quite obsessed with quality -- yes most of their products cost more than Chinese or American products (think cars/electronics) but they're generally better quality as well, something your average Japanese has become very accustomed to and demands.

Again, I do use Hikari and have generally seen good results with their foods, but you'd think with 125+ experience in the industry that they'd be able to come up with a better balance of palatability and nutrition.

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/massivore-question.309774/

i dont remember how much pertains to this discussion. Interesting read.

to OP variety is the spice of life , I feed a large variety of foods .. The new NLS sinking pellets drive me nuts 50% dont sink and get swept into my overflows if I dont shut the sumps down.. Hikari has always been a staple for training fish to accept pellets... NLS is a little too hard unless you presoak......I prefer grocery store food for my larger fish, filet's stuffed with pellets.. everybody has a favorite and nothing brings the brand bigots to the surface than a good old fish food debate. GL
This last batch is soo bad that im eventually going to replace it with something else. For my purposes the stuff is just unusable.

Aaaaaand these are NEW containers of algaemax and thereA.

The algaemax doesnt sink unless i use a syringe to create a vacuum and remove the air. The thereA (second in the vid) isnt as bad as you'll see most sink but 1 or 2 never make there way down. When your throwing in a handful 10 or 12 pellets ending up in the overflow or worse making down to the socks and rotting is just as bad.


……. and just to clarify, with the new NLS sinking pellets, they do in fact all sink - some just take longer than others.
:nono:
 
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Too small for my own liking I guess. My O has trouble seeing them sometimes (this is the NLS “extra large fish” formula I’m talking about) as compared with the Omega One large cichlid formula. Though I like the quality of the NLS better. Anyway not a big deal, they do the job. Although am moving towards bug bites for my Trimac.
This is good to know. So OO is bigger or at least the same size as large NLS float ?

Little jardini wont touch the NLS but loves OO
 
Aaaaaand these are NEW containers of algaemax and thereA.

So are all of mine, as stated above. I have both pre Naturox & post Naturox. All of it sinks with a little agitation on the surface. I'm not sure what's up with the hand clapping following my quote?

Sucks if it's not working for you, but I have zero issues. ALL of the pellets sink in my tanks, most right away, and the rest fall from turbulence of my filters and the fish feeding. (see post above)

If it's not working for you, switch brands - problem solved. I would. I only commented as I don't want anyone to think that it takes 2 hours for the pellets to sink. Most hobbyists won't have any issues with the newer formulas. Those that do will have to sort it out.
 
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I fed the Pbass some freeze dried (soaked in garlic) red lug worms from Zombie Baits today. Has nothing to do with this thread but they loved them.
:popcorn:
 
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