PETA sue Seaworld for enslave the whales...

[MN_Rebel]

LOL That's been the problem this whole time. You don't get it, and never will. Yes, obviously the concept of keeping animals is the same. Everybody knows that. The issue is, that for you guys, ALL animals fit under your blanket understanding, and that is where you fail. I've said this repeatedly in the thread about the Ohio situation. Stop comparing the keeping of a wild animal to a domesticated pet. The idiocy of your logic is mind-numbing.

Domesticated pets are no different from the wild animals. They still have wild instincts, and all of domesticated pets has sucessfully went feral. Wild horses in United States, wild donkeys in Mexico, feral camels in Austrialia, feral cows in Alaska, Texas and Austrailia, feral hogs/cats/dogs in whole world. I'd like see you taming a Black Angus cow whose never seen humans for 6 months while living on the pasture. Have you ever dealed with frustated horses or dogs that wants to follow their instincts?

My point is that WE denied the wild instincts of ALL animals (both wild and domesticated) in captivity. We can't give full requirements to the animals we take of but we can keep them healthy.

 

[MN_Rebel]

And I'm sure the orcas and other dolphins in captivity recieved best captive care from experts, not mentioned that the orcas are thriving and BREEDING in captivity.

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

This won't fly... animals don't get rights under the US Constitution. PETA is just kicking up dirt.


As for all the page upon page of comments about how they are 'mistreated animals' , anyone commenting actually have experience working with large marine mammals under human care? Or is this a bunch of side line opinions based on emotion and things the media feeds you?

People that want to free them all, or think they are mistreated are also generally the people who don't have any real information about captive care.

speaking of the constitution, it allows us to "armchair quarterback". So what's your take on Seaworld's captive care then from the inside?

 

[jcardona1]

anyone commenting actually have experience working with large marine mammals under human care? Or is this a bunch of side line opinions based on emotion and things the media feeds you?

Well now that's stupid. Like if you need to have first-hand experience to have an opinion. And of course you say that because you're on the inside, since you sort of do these things for a living. And to be clear, this isn't about mistreatment or neglect. I have no doubt that the people working with these animals love and care for them to the fullest of their abilities, so again, stop making my arguments into something their not.

 

[probassfisher010]

Well now that's stupid. Like if you need to have first-hand experience to have an opinion. And of course you say that because you're on the inside, since you sort of do these things for a living. And to be clear, this isn't about mistreatment or neglect. I have no doubt that the people working with these animals love and care for them to the fullest of their abilities, so again, stop making my arguments into something their not.

So let me make this clear. The argument that you are clinging onto is the following: Orcas don't diserve to be held in capitvity (yet almost every other animal that is kept is okay), they don't diserve to be held because they migrate (even though it has been shown that not all clusters of Orcas migrate) And Orcas are too intelligent to be held (yet dogs, cats, pigs, fish, alligators, lions, tigers and every other specie held regularly in capitivty is not?)You must be holding on to a thin strand of hope of winning this argument at this point.

 

[jcardona1]

(yet almost every other animal that is kept is okay)

You have a wild imagination. I have no idea where you came up with this, but if you find it, let me know. Go read my posts in the 'Ohio situation' thread. You'll see where I stand.

And I'm not trying to win anything. It's immature and simple-minded to think that. I could care less about winning an internet argument. I'm sharing my views, just like everybody else. There's no point in trying to change anybody's opinion.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?442632-The-Ohio-situation.-Read-this-may-effect-us-all

 

[probassfisher010]

Can't say I disagree with their stance. The exploitation of these exotic animals for our own personal enjoyment is sickening. The world would be a better place without zoos and circuses. Keeping certain animals caged up in these conditions is not right. I don't understand why humans feel the need to cage, own, dominate and display every living thing on this planet as if it were a toy.

CERTAIN animals, what makes one animal better then another? At what exact species do you draw the line. Are you talking size, intelligence, both?

You go on saying keeping an 8" fish is perfectly ok, yet keeping a bear is not. Who gives you the right to decide which species is ok to keep and which is not? I do not see how you feel one species is greater then other, after all it is just a species. Humans are just a species, why are we better then a fish? Are you that narcissistic thinking that you are better then something for what ever reason you see fit. Intelligence? Strength? Ability to kill it?

Heres another quote from you

Pet? A pet? Give me a freaking break. An elephant is not a pet. A tiger is not a pet. A bear is not a pet. I don't know how some can be so hard-headed to not realize that.

What makes a bear not okay as a pet, but a dog is? Are you a god and have the ability to decide which is a good pet and which is not? Is it a bad pet because it can kill you? Many dogs have killed people before.

Here's another quote from you "I think keeping certain exotic animals is wrong. You think it's fine. That's all there is to it. We're not gonna sway each others views. " How do you decide which animals are these "cetain exotic animals?" once you hear the name do you make a flash judgement if it is acceptable to be kept, even though you have aboslutely no experience with the species?

A new species is discovered, only 100 left in the wild, this is as exotic as it gets. Although it's just a minnow... Is it okay to keep, because it has no intelligence?

I don't think so, not IMO at least. It's not just the danger factor. It's the animal. The species. There's a huge difference in the needs and care of a goldfish vs a shark. A common house cat vs a tiger. A bunny rabbit vs a bear. A hamster vs a monkey. That's my issue. There are just some animals that people have no business keeping as pets. It's naive to assume that because you ban certain exotic animals, it will include all common pets. And I'll say it again, why do people feel the need to keep some of these exotic animals as pets? Does it make you feel good? Powerful? Superior? A sense of accomplishment? Or your selfish materialistic tendencies?

Why do you feel the need to keep exotic fish? Does it make you feel good? powerful? superior? a sense of accomplishment? Or your selfish tendencies?

So far you have called every one a retard or thick headed who views keeping an exotic fish the same as an orca/bear/tiger etc. What is your reasoning on this? You have not given one piece of reasoning to say why they are different, all you have done is insult people who disagree and feel it's the same thing on a different scale.

Is it intelligence? Who says pigs are not intelligent, yet we keep them as pets all the time. Is it size? I've seen more GATF, Arapaima, mekong, goonch, ID shark, Paroon sharks, on this site alone then I would ever expect to see, plenty in inadequete housing. Is it dangerous, people keep hot snakes, lionfish, large dogs, all the time, are these not dangerous? So far you have connected absolutely no link why we its ok to keep some species and not ok to keep others, and until you explain why keeping a fish is ok but not another species, then you are a hypocrite. Also calling me thick headed, semi retarded and what ever else won't get you out of this corner, you will actually need to use reason.

 

[jcardona1]

Are you that narcissistic thinking that you are better then something for what ever reason you see fit.

Yes, we all are, every single one of us. Even you, as you hold up that fish you caught, like a trophy.

Are you a god and have the ability to decide which is a good pet and which is not?

Nope, and I don't need to be to decide. It's my opinion. My opinion is not going to affect anybody. I have mine, you have yours.

once you hear the name do you make a flash judgement if it is acceptable to be kept, even though you have aboslutely no experience with the species?

In a nutshell, yes, that's how it works.

Why do you feel the need to keep exotic fish? Does it make you feel good? powerful? superior? a sense of accomplishment? Or your selfish tendencies?

Comparing this to an orca is apples to duct tape. Try to make a logical point next time.

So far you have called every one a retard or thick headed who views keeping an exotic fish the same as an orca/bear/tiger etc. What is your reasoning on this?

Because it's true. And I've provided my reasoning, many times. I'm not going to keep repeating it.

I've seen more GATF, Arapaima, mekong, goonch, ID shark, Paroon sharks, on this site alone then I would ever expect to see, plenty in inadequete housing.

Good, you recognize that. Just because I'm on this site doesn't mean I agree with it. I don't keep them, so that doesn't apply to me. I have tetras in a 200g. Not really the same thing here.

So far you have connected absolutely no link why we its ok to keep some species and not ok to keep others, and until you explain why keeping a fish is ok but not another species, then you are a hypocrite.

Then so be it. If you can't draw the link on your own, continuing to debate this is futile.

you will actually need to use reason.

I think you'd benefit from using a little reasoning, actually. If you were able to reason, you would not be arguing that keeping X in captivity is the same as keeping Y in captivity.

 

[probassfisher010]

Keeping a species in captivity is the same as keeping another species, and you have shown nothing to prove this false. Only called one duct tape and one apples.

I do agree with you that humans feel they are better then every other species, including myself, and I do agree that keeping tetras in a 200g is much more humane then a tiger in a small cage, or an orca in a swimming pool. If I didn't agree, then I would not be keeping fish of my own. The only reason I am debating you is because I don't think it is fair to say keeping one species is completely awful, but keeping another is perfectly acceptable, one may be more humane to keep then another, but still keeping a species out of its natural habitat is the same no matter what the animal is. Im sorry if you can't understand this

Anyways we both have taken this too far, and I think it's time for atleast me to cut it off, this time for real, over and out.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Wow someone is being blind to his biased comments. It doesn't make any sense that exotic animals keeping are wrong, yet it's okay to keep exotic, dangerous and rare fishes? It's wrong to keep a dolphin or apes in captivity, yet its okay to keep rats, horses, pigs, dogs, parrots and even working elephants in Inda? It's wrong to keep dangerous wild animals, yet domestic dogs and cattle (especially bulls) have killed people more than wild animals in captivity? It's wrong to keep orcas in so called "swimming pool", yet it's okay to keep pets in smaller enclourses and even zoo big cats (lions/tigers) needs a large area to roaming around, are confirmed to closed enclourse?