PETA sue Seaworld for enslave the whales...

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I am guilty of keeping animals in cages and aquariums also. Has Seaworld and any other company thought about how much people spend to go on animal safaris and whale watching? Why not build a huge enclosure for the whales, etc... and let them roam freely? Make the enclosures with 85-90 % of viewing space and an area where the animals can have privacy. So what if you can't see a whale flip over for a belly rub. Being able to see the whales, etc... do what they want is best.

As hobbyist we are not going to refuse to buy a fish because it doesn't jump through hoops literally. We allow our fish to do what they want in the aquariums. The fish and aquarium selling business are doing very well. PETA is extreme many times. Why do we get mad when someone keeps a tiger, lions, etc... in an apartment or in a enclosure in a backyard? You know the enclosures that only have room for a animal to jump on top of wood shelters and maybe a piece of wood suspended and pace back and forth.

aparpaima that is on here has the 50,000, 20,000 gallons and more in aquariums that most of us would love to have. The only issue for us would be the money or the space to do it. However, Seaworld and the rest have the money and the space to build the largest enclousures for their animals. Even a betta wants more room. As soon as the betta realizes it's in a decent size space, their behavior changes completely. Take the same betta and put it in a bowl or a cup it acts depressed after it's been in the larger space.


Most of the public aquariums and zoos do many many things for conservation. People are just too narrow minded to go look at what they are doing outside the park grounds. The money made in a park situation is FAR greater than the money in taking people out into the wild to see animals. It's just the way it is.

A display where the animals can't be seen some of the time is one of the worst things a park can do from a guest stand point. "Thanks for your money, but the animals can't be seen today. Come again next week." Not going to fly.

I think something you guys are missing about marine mammals is that they thive off the interaction and it's 100% their own choice to participate. They aren't doing tricks for food. They get fed no matter what. If they don't feel like doing something, they won't. It's that easy. Also, the idea of a huge enclosure and letting them roam isn't the way they work. They aren't at all like keeping fish. They need the mental stimulation, play times, interactions etc... in the wild, they do the same thing.

Refusing interaction and stimulation is more like refusing water for your fish. They need it to thive. A bored marine mammal is one that will stress itself out and get sick as a result.

Every park has financial limitations - just like a private owner. It's not like parks have a bottomless pit of money and space. They are very limited, and most do a great job and using what they have to provide great levels of care for the living collections.
 
Zoodiver, you don't think Orcas would get mental stimulation from each other? Putting things in the enclosures to make them use their brains would work. For instance, to copy spy hopping put a platform that can rock with fish or some other treat that could dropped from above to encourage thinking. Toys of all kinds would be the same but something to replicate more nature. I didn't say hide the animals. You can see an Orca in an enclosure but have the viewing sections wrap around the habitat. Even 3/4 would be sufficient for people to view. The orcas can be fed 3 times a day for public view but the remaining times should let people see Orcas be themselves. The fish are all in view including the whale sharks at the Georgia Aquarium but they are all just swimming freely.

I can tell you that Zoo Atlanta was depressing when I visited as a kid. The walls and floor were tiled. The animals only had a long shelf that was suspended in the middle. Some had a couple of seating areas to the side. Willie B. (Gorilla) was famous for watching t.v. in his cage. So what!! There was nothing else for him to do!!!! The mandrill baboon was famous for throwing feces on the glass at people. All the animals looked depressed. You can say what you want but all the Zoos, etc... that have changed the enclosures has helped the animals compared to what they had. Zoo Atlanta has visitors from all over the world especially after it's complete overhaul, just like our Georgia Aquarium. Goes to show that it is possible. Since you have caught the animals for exhibits, there are some places you know those animals will be happy in and you know the ones they won't.

Furthermore, zoos parks, etc... should contribute greatly to education, protection of endangered species and anything else. They make the money, they take the animals from the wild, including stripping them from their family groups. Every animal in the zoo or park was not taken because it was sick or lost. This has been exposed on documentaries and news reports too. I will say it's legal but a hunter can't go and take a buck anytime of the year because he wants to show it to his friends or charge people to see it.
 
^ I'm pretty sure most animals in zoo parks were captive-bred.
 
From another perspective from someone who has worked in a park/zoo setting. The statement about dolphins not being forced to do anything, still being fed, shown love and given stimulation would be correct, ime. They get toys, they socialize in pods, they get free time to swim around, they do not have to do tricks if the do not wish to and training and tricks are done to help with stimulation. Also many of the parks/zoos offer educational camps, seminars, displays and events to support animal conservation.
 
Ha oops i forgot the quote...I was wondering who was going to say this first


As for all the page upon page of comments about how they are 'mistreated animals' , anyone commenting actually have experience working with large marine mammals under human care? Or is this a bunch of side line opinions based on emotion and things the media feeds you?

People that want to free them all, or think they are mistreated are also generally the people who don't have any real information about captive care.[/QUOTE]
 
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals = PETA....actually a terrorist group

if you're going to make a claim that peta is a TERRORIST group, back it up. what acts of terrorism have they committed, hmm? please, tell us.

Here's what wikipedia says about this law:
The Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA) is a United States federal law (Pub.L. 109-374; 18 U.S.C. § 43) that prohibits any person from engaging in certain conduct "for the purpose of damaging or interfering with the operations of an animal enterprise."[1] The statute covers any act that either "damages or causes the loss of any real or personal property" or "places a person in reasonable fear" of injury. The law contains a savings clause that indicates it should not be construed to "prohibit any expressive conduct (including peaceful picketing or other peaceful demonstration) protected from legal prohibition by the First Amendment to the Constitution." [1] However, by its own terms, the statute criminalizes acts such as "intimidation." And prosecutions under AETA require using evidence of otherwise lawful free speech in order to demonstrate a "course of conduct" as proof of purpose or possible conspiracy'

They have NEVER, and I repeat this, NEVER, performed any actions which have caused any sort of intimidation, provoked fear of physical safety, damaged or destroyed any property beyond recovery/repair.

you don't seem to understand the definition of terrorism. Here's the official US government definition of terrorism:
act of terrorism, means any activity that (A) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life that is a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State; and (B) appears to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping."

PETA has never done this. The despicable 'wars' in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, DO constitute terrorism and by definition all involved, and all supporters ought to be arrested and jailed .

....you see how absurd it would be to treat our Military [many of them brave, sincere, good men and women, but certainly not all], as terrorists, but by our definition of the word, that's what they are.

IF you actually saw the way the whales were treated, and the psychological effects this captive lifestyle has on them, maybe you'd sing a different song. But you won't ever bother to look into the actual treatment of the whales, as revealed by undercover investigations and other types of documentation.

I am a vegan, animal rights activist, peaceful, law-abiding protester. I pay my taxes, I do not cause trouble. I am non-violent. But wherever I see brutal injustice, I speak out. Am I a terrorist? I might be, according to the animal enterprise terrorism act. [see SHAC 7, a deplorable display of police-state power ]. I attended a protest at a Bills/Eagles game, the purpose was to educate the public regarding Micheal Vick's actual crimes. He did not serve time for, neither was he convicted of, any form of animal cruelty/abuse/neglect. Yet, he slammed dogs on pavement by their hind legs, he beat them, shot them, anally electrocuted them, and committed other heinous crimes.

You know how people responded? Some cheered, some cursed at us, some physically threatened us, some threw beer bottles at us, tried to block our signs. This is a violation of federal law, obstructing our right to protest. We responded with silence, peaceful remarks, etc. We even recycled the bottles.

So who is the terrorist there? you're remark is ignorant, groundless, and it shows an extraordinary lack of compassion and understanding of the true nature of what we activists attempt to do. [I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH NOR DO I ENDORSE PETA IN ANY WAY, JUST MAKING MY POINT. PETA ACTUALLY SUCKS. BUT THEY AREN'T TERRORISTS]. Your hasty attack on animal activists and their causes, as well as your obvious unwillingness to investigate their claims beyond reading a corporate news article that does not properly source it's information proves that your opinion is irrelevant in a real discussion of the matter at hand.
 
If we lose places like Sea World/Zoo/Public Aquarium etc, I think a vast number of population would lose the only interactions with these creatures...and in the long run, harm instead of help the long term prospects of those animals.

I think this is a valid argument, but it misses the point. The general population doesn't care about these creatures at all. All they see is a 'happy' (but how would they know?, are they animal behaviorists?) whale doing tricks for their amusement. They don't even think about the treat/well-being of the creature outside of the performance. That the animal must remain in relatively tiny quarters, without proper stimulation, and that the creature was most likely caught in a manner what cause psychologically traumatizing. The the real matter is that the well-being of the WHALES themselves should be investigated. If the whales had a choice, they would leave and never return. They would probably rejoice when they left. [SEE youtube film: Peaceable Kingdom. If Sheeps, cows, etc, can do so, surely whales can too]. Most people would scoff at the idea of considering the overall well-being of the animal. And when confronted with the overwhelmingly sad fact that many of these animal become so psychologically traumatized and bored, that they literally loose their sanity, the people would say "oh, I can't watch/hear/talk about it, it's just too sad" The way everyone does when confronted with the same about farm animals at slaughter.

Here is a few facts that I think are analogous:
We have a mental image of slaughter, but it is most likely incomplete or wholly wrong. We do not consider [that is, filter out, ignore, remove from our mental picture] the details of the slaughter which might be offensive and horrifying. The very real and detectable look of terror in the eyes of these animals. The screams of agony and the gasping, twitching, trembling, choking as they are killed. The horrifying forms of abuse many endure. We don't see picture dairy cows crying out when her calves are taken away. We don't see the dairy cow collapse from exhaustion, then kicked, electrocuted, or stabbed with a poking implement to get her moving. These things we ignore, but they go on. This is called cognitive dissonance. It is part of a greater circumstance, called moral schizophrenia. We know if we ever saw someone string up a dog or cat, we would immediately stop them. But we support and encourage this behavior when it involves chickens, cows, pigs, etc.

What makes them different? Do they not feel pain, terror, sadness, agony, or joy? Do they not form bonds? Are they any less self-aware? I am repeatedly asked about my vegan lifestyle. My answers are always ignored.

When I ask people why they eat meat, the answer is always the same; 1. I need the protein. [this is utterly erroneous. Try to argue with me. I'm a Biological Anthropologist.) Or 2. It tastes good.

Neither of them are genuine reasons in the same sense that I am required to provide for my lifestyle. And the notion of purpose-bred animals is invalid. They are sentient and feel the same.


My point is that the whales deserve to have their well-being taken into account. We have no ethical right to forcefully pull these animals from their natural habitat in order to entertain ourselves. IF someone did this to a human being, we would be appalled. Why?

There is a tribe of people in African, called the !Kung people, [the ! symbol represents a type of glottal sound which we do not have in english] who live in the Kalahari desert where meat is sparse. They track giraffes and they must hunt them by jabbing them with a poisoned arrow, then following them for days until the poison finally overtakes the giraffe. [they are common known as the bushmen, the pygmy tribe, and they are unable to overtake the giraffe quickly as a consequence of their smaller stature]

Then the giraffe is killed, the members of the tribe weep for the soul of the giraffe. They apologize, they give thought to the sentience of the creature. They throw themselves to the desert floor in woe over the void in the universe. They believe the void left by this loss of life is one which may not ever be filled.

When westerners kill an animal, they typically celebrate, document the kill with photographs, they do not pity the creature, who unwillingly lost his or her life. They often pose with the dead and bloodied creature in displays of dominance and superiority. [See anyone's picture that includes a 'big fish' they caught.]

The lack of reverence we have for our animals is appalling. Egalitarian societies have different views. The lives of the animals matter.
 
^ to you, maybe your the one that's need research? To be honest it seems that you are PETA supporter judging from your posts or trying to covering the facts about PETA and animals.

PETA did terrorism acts, damaged the properties, freed animals and actually used intimidation on our people.

Actually most animals in captivity were captive bred anyways. Even these ones that's difficult to breed in captive, has sucessfully bred in captivity. Pandas, Asian elephants, Asian rhino species and even cheetahs have recently give birth in captivity in recent years. Noted that there are few DOMESTICATED animals that required A.I to breed sucessfully. To be honest, A.I helps very much on both exotic and domestic animals.
 
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