pics

[xander]

okay what if i added the pH chemicles that i wanted to initially, just not such a drastic one(8.3) and i do it really gradually(say, increase the pH by 0.1 every 3-4 days or so) till the appropriate pH value.

 

[Polypterus]

okay what if i added the pH chemicles that i wanted to initially, just not such a drastic one(8.3) and i do it really gradually(say, increase the pH by 0.1 every 3-4 days or so) till the appropriate pH value.

Do not use any chemical treatment to adjust pH... You do this your fish is as good as dead....

This is not the point and you seem to be missing this. You want stability of the pH. To do this use a substrate specifically designed to do this by raising buffering capacity... I.E. Aragonite or some mixture that contains it.

Other than the addition of this and doing frequent small percentage waterchanges do not mess with anything. This has been stressed over and over again.

Cuban gar are really not a good fish to have in an uncycled not stabilized tank. (Especially a small one that will fluctuate rapidly) They do not adapt well to it.

 

[xander]

no, i did not miss the point. however what i was suggesting is that i use a chemical that mantains the pH at whatever is optimum. how is this different from the substrate?

 

[E_americanus]

no, i did not miss the point. however what i was suggesting is that i use a chemical that mantains the pH at whatever is optimum. how is this different from the substrate?

chemical control is not as stable or as dependable as the substrate...and yes, you do seem to be missing the point. the point is to use something that will buffer the pH (you really need to look up the basics/theory behind pH in an aquarium), not just change it. by adding the substrate we are suggesting, you will create the ability of a buffer for the pH; by just adding some chemicals you will just raise the pH, but won't really be creating a buffer.

the simplest thing to do here is follow the directions we have given you, we're not trying to be bossy, we're trying to help you save your fish (and likely the others in the long term). the problems you have run in to have been when you've deviated from what we suggested over and over and over. this is why we have about 3-4 threads of 30 posts each, instead of a single thread where the problem was solved relatively rapidly.

if you don't want to follow these directions, don't. we're not holding a gun to your head; note the fishes will be the ones who pay in the end--
--solomon

 

[E_americanus]

ah yes, this is the icon i have been looking for:

 

[xander]

i'm trying, i'm trying. not easy to get the stuff here either. when no one seems to know what i'm talking about. mind you i've been given the wrong substrate TWICE and have had to spend hours sifting them out of the tank. which is why i'm trying to think of an alternative way of stablising the pH

yes i understand that you're trying to help, i'm also looking for ways that might be easier than trial and error with different substrates. cause as far as lfs's knows, the closest i've come to aragonite or buffering pH is sand used for marine aquarium, which they seem to say raises the pH. so i was thinking of using the pH chemical, which i mentioned before not just increases the pH, but also buffers it.

 

[Polypterus]

no, i did not miss the point. however what i was suggesting is that i use a chemical that mantains the pH at whatever is optimum. how is this different from the substrate?

The substrate additive does not alter pH values it buffers it to make it stable ..... Do not alter the pH.... alter the buffering capacity....(also known as carbonate hardness, Total alkalinity)

Those chemical pH products are poison in a bottle for a novice and do not work for stabilizing your water on anything but a temporary basis. Doing any sort of chemical manipulation of the water is NOT advised.

Aragonite.. AKA dolomite.. Or what is called Texas holey rock have been identified as the best choices for Buffering water for gar (In particular Cuban) the other items used for raising carbonate hardness (oystershell, coral, etc) are not as stable in use and require monitoring to use effectively. The addition of this material to your substrate is not the same, or even in the same league, as altering the water through chemical manipulation.

 

[E_americanus]

i'm trying, i'm trying. not easy to get the stuff here either. when no one seems to know what i'm talking about. mind you i've been given the wrong substrate TWICE and have had to spend hours sifting them out of the tank. which is why i'm trying to think of an alternative way of stablising the pH

yes i understand that you're trying to help, i'm also looking for ways that might be easier than trial and error with different substrates. cause as far as lfs's knows, the closest i've come to aragonite or buffering pH is sand used for marine aquarium, which they seem to say raises the pH. so i was thinking of using the pH chemical, which i mentioned before not just increases the pH, but also buffers it.

let's recap just a little bit with some suggestions at the end:

-DO NOT use chemicals to alter the pH. PERIOD.

-if the marine sand has aragonite in it, then USE IT. aragonite is essentially crushed coral/shells. this is what you WANT. look at the ingredients on the sand and see if they mention crushed coral or aragonite...again, this is what you want.

-follow what we are telling you, NOT what your LFS is telling you. you say they are a good LFS, that may be so, and that's great, but in working with them you've apparently ended up with the wrong stuff twice. unless they specialize in primitive fishes...or more specifically gars, then listen to what WE are telling you and just use the LFS to purchase the products, not for their advice (at least in this case).

-DO NOT use chemicals to alter the pH. abandon this idea/concept/possibility completely.--
--solomon

 

[xander]

-if the marine sand has aragonite in it, then USE IT. aragonite is essentially crushed coral/shells. this is what you WANT. look at the ingredients on the sand and see if they mention crushed coral or aragonite...again, this is what you want.
--solomon

okay here's the thing. they did not say that the marine sand has aragonite in it. they just said it raises the pH.
secondly, the bags they provide do not have ingredients on them, it's just plain translucent bags with substrate in it.

So here's what i'm going to do tomorrow(it's almost 5 in the morning here, i'm thinking of just sleeping for two hours and then getting to work on the tank)
1.remove all the new substrate
2.add a canister filter(atman-3337) with crushed corals and sintered glass media.
3.get marine sand(essentially crushed corals) and add it to the tank.
4.do all tests once again.

just a qn, if after adding all the new media, the pH is still 7, how am i to raise it?

 

[E_americanus]

okay here's the thing. they did not say that the marine sand has aragonite in it. they just said it raises the pH.
secondly, the bags they provide do not have ingredients on them, it's just plain translucent bags with substrate in it.

So here's what i'm going to do tomorrow(it's almost 5 in the morning here, i'm thinking of just sleeping for two hours and then getting to work on the tank)
1.remove all the new substrate
2.add a canister filter(atman-3337) with crushed corals and sintered glass media.
3.get marine sand(essentially crushed corals) and add it to the tank.
4.do all tests once again.

just a qn, if after adding all the new media, the pH is still 7, how am i to raise it?

don't worry about things if the pH doesn't go UP. remember you are trying to buffer against major pH fluctuations. if it stays at 7 all the time that is just fine. the main issue is that you are trying to make it difficult for the pH to change (or drop)...so if it remains at 7 that is ok.

i realize it's late over there, but you seriously really really really really really need to look up basic info about pH and buffering capacity in aquariums (even marine references would help). until you do that, i'm not going to EXPLAIN anything further about pH, i'll just give instructions and expect you to follow them if you want the fish to improve (or have a chance at improving). if anyone else wants to give the in-depth explanations of pH in an aquarium they can feel free as i don't have the time or the desire to type any of that stuff up--
--solomon