Pictus during cycling

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I know a guy who can give me some seeded filter material. I have 2 Eheim 2217's on a 135 Gallon. He has one, maybe two, Eheim's on a 135 Gallon. So how much filter media do I take from him and put in mine to seed my tank without causing a mini-cycle in his? I was thinking just one sponge pad out of his, put it in mine, I should be good? Or will I need more out of his?
 
For me, hard to say. Depends whether he is filtering with a large margin of safety or not. Depends on filter material - they vary vastly in surface area = capacity to house BB's.

To seed, I usually use something like BioBoost from Petsolutions.com ($20 for 1/2 gal) or/and Microbe-Lift, sold mainly for ponds but works fine for an aquarium. The latter is carried by both pond shops and pet shops, usually.
 
thebiggerthebetter said:
Please, do not intentionally torture any fish and use the waiting to work on patience.
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I've used fish to cycle and never had any die from the process, in fact I've still got a few from my first cycling years ago. The way I see it is those fish can either go to you or a 5 year olds fish bowl and or feeders.

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Few days later, Ammonia=1.0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=5. Temp is 80.6. pH is 7.8. NO change in any of these water parameters. Getting close to 2 weeks now, no nitrites. How long does it take for nitrites to be produced? a week or two? And what's REALLY confusing me....how come ammonia isn't rising as the days go by? If no nitrite producing bacteria, ammonia being produced by all these dirty comets, where's the ammonia going? It should rise daily. If it doesn't rise daily, then there should be some nitrite. Where's it going?

ETA: I decided not to seed my filters from the other guy's filters. Although I don't have what I DO want (a cycled tank), I also don't have what I don't want (problems) either. I figure bringing in filter material from some other tank might be more trouble than it's worth. I got some pictus catfish, they've been in there a few days now--they look pretty happy to me.
 
ragin_cajun said:
Few days later, Ammonia=1.0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=5. Temp is 80.6. pH is 7.8. NO change in any of these water parameters. Getting close to 2 weeks now, no nitrites. How long does it take for nitrites to be produced? a week or two? And what's REALLY confusing me....how come ammonia isn't rising as the days go by? If no nitrite producing bacteria, ammonia being produced by all these dirty comets, where's the ammonia going? It should rise daily. If it doesn't rise daily, then there should be some nitrite. Where's it going?

ETA: I decided not to seed my filters from the other guy's filters. Although I don't have what I DO want (a cycled tank), I also don't have what I don't want (problems) either. I figure bringing in filter material from some other tank might be more trouble than it's worth. I got some pictus catfish, they've been in there a few days now--they look pretty happy to me.
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-- So, you have started the cycling under 2 weeks ago only?
-- What test kit are you using?
-- If it is neither fresh, nor expired, has it been stored properly?

The parameters usually go up and down during the cycling, not necessarily daily or even weekly but over the usual 6-week period they do.

You say you had added TetraSafe start, which, I am guessing (not being familiar with this product) contains both kinds of needed bacteria. Hence, I think the simple way to interpret your data is that the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite are struggling (not enough of them yet) and the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate have been coping fine so far. It may or may not go vice versa later.
 
Yep--started the cycle 2 weeks ago today. I got first faint reading on Nitrite this morning. I'm using the API master test kit--expiration date on it is 2018. Don't know how the test kit was stored, bought from the LFS. I don't know what all SafeStart has in it other than bacteria. But it's been kept refrigerated at the LFS. I did a 50% water change this morning and the fish all look fine, eat alot, Pictus spend as much time at the top of the tank as the bottom, so I guess it's going good. Pictus don't sit still ever.
 
Sounds like your kit's good and the seeding agent should be fine. Just wait it out. 4 weeks is a minimum. Interpreting pictus (or any fish) behavior is not easy unless you have had plenty of experience. What you describe could be a sign of stress but since they feed well, I'd not worry.
 
So today I got 0 ppm Nitrites, as usual, and 0 ppm Ammonia. First time I've ever had 0 ppm Ammonia. The pictus aren't panting anymore, either. So, I'm thinking the cycle is done, but I never saw a Nitrite spike, and it been just a little shy of 3 weeks--kinda fast. So what now? start testing Nitrates and see if they start to slowly climb? How do I REALLY know when it's cycled? 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite for a week or so?
 
RC: So today I got 0 ppm Nitrites, as usual, and 0 ppm Ammonia. First time I've ever had 0 ppm Ammonia.
TBTB: IME, both ammonia and nitrite will still appear (you are feeding continuously, right?). First 0 readings are great but like you said, it is not over.

RC: The pictus aren't panting anymore, either.
TBTB: The panting (heavy breathing) might have been the consequence of the NH3 presence but not necessarily. It takes time for fish to adjust too, some longer some shorter. Perhaps other things might have changed in your tank too.

RC: So, I'm thinking the cycle is done,
TBTB: I don't think so. Moreover, a cycle is a relative term. You may be cycled to handle say 0.1 lb of fish and their waste. You are no where near to handle a 1 lb or more of fish.

RC: ... but I never saw a Nitrite spike,
TBTB: Does not mean much. It only means that your NO2-to-NO3-converting bacteria grew faster (as was evident fro the beginning).

RC: and it been just a little shy of 3 weeks--kinda fast. So what now?
TBTB: The cycle is getting close but not over with your current bio-load (as in fish number/weight/waste/etc). As you increase your bio-load you will be going through what's referred to as "mini-cycles". The slower you go, the more manageable and less traumatic for the fish these mini-cycles will be. These also can be caused by mishaps, like refused and not removed food, dead fish, un-conditioned water, addition of meds, etc. That's why it is highly advisable to have a good safety margin when it comes to bio-filtering.

RC: start testing Nitrates and see if they start to slowly climb?
TBTB: Testing for nitrates is recommended as long as you are trying to understand if your water changes are coping with the nitrate production and when increasing bio-load, changing diet, etc.

RC: How do I REALLY know when it's cycled? 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite for a week or so?
TBTB: See above :) Once you have a very stable tank, I'd test at least once a week, especially after a heavy feeding. Even if nothing changes in your tank, fish grow. Hence, even if your tank was perfectly cycled with the babies and juvies, it may not be able to handle sub-adults and adults. Just common sense. Keep an eye on it and on fishes behavior. Treat ANY notable change in behavior as an alarm to check the water right away.
 
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