Pinkies as food for Rays? Anyone tried this?

[RD.]

even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.

123456

The same thing applies to beefheart, for the same reasons listed above. A poor choice of food for any long lived tropical species of fish. There are far better alternatives out there if one wants to feed fresh/frozen food.

 

[123456]

Cool. I don't know much about rays.

But for Discus', I know a lot of local and overseas Discus breeders still use beef heart for bulking them up and for conditioning them for breeding.

 

[RD.]

But for Discus', I know a lot of local and overseas Discus breeders still use beef heart for bulking them up and for conditioning them for breeding.

Certainly, and they do so only for the reasons that you just stated. That doesn't equate to it being an optimum food for a discus, especially when one considers what those fish consume in the wild.

Fish such as discus & rays aren't hard wired to assimilate the fatty acids found in beef, anymore than they are hard wired to assimilate large amounts of carbs. These excess lipids get stored in & around the organs, and eventually shorten the fishes lifespan. Can these foodstuffs offer amino acids, and solid growth, yes, no question about that, but that doesn't qualify them as being a good source of food.

Beefheart is fed by certain breeders because it's a very cheap source of protein, and it does create quick growth, but just like commercial fish operations these breeders are not concerned with longevity, only how quickly they can bring their fish to market.

Many "monster" fish keepers do the same in a rush for massive quick growth, not realizing what the long term affects on the health of the fish may be. Even the person who many consider the Godfather of Discus, Jack Wattley, no longer feeds beefheart to his fish, and a few years ago stated in a TFH article that pellets & flakes provide just as good results in his grow outs, and adult breeders. Just goes to show that even old dogs can learn new tricks.

Here's a link to a scientific paper that every discus owner should read.


http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-62252008000400008

"This species feeds predominantly on algal periphyton, fine organic detritus, plant matter, and small aquatic invertebrates."

"The alimentary canal of Symphysodon is characterized by a poorly defined stomach and an elongate intestine, some 300 mm long and 3 mm wide (in a 180 mm SL specimen). This intestinal morphology is typical of a cichlid with a dominantly vegetarian, detritivorous, or omnivorous diet."

Another good read on this subject; (scroll down to "what do discus eat")
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co....ve_guide_to_Discus:_part_two&utm_content=html



Of course if one is in the business of growing fish out for resale, then the main goal (at least in many cases) is to get the fish as large as humanly possible, in as short of time frame as humanly possible. I think that a lot of discus would have much longer lifespans if people weren't in such a rush to have 6 inch fish. A poll taken a few yrs back on simplydiscus had the average lifespan of a tank raised discus at 4 yrs, which IMO is pretty sad.

My apologies for the discus derailment, but the same things mentioned above apply to rays & most other tropical species of fish.


My advice, save your beef (and other red meat) for the barbecue.

 

[skiptomyzoo]

Let me state what some of you have missed. These pinkies are dead, frozen, etc. He is not feeding the rays them for entertainment. He was asking nutritional value and kudos to you who got this and didn't belabor on moot points. If you want to take issue with that, than sure the mice probably wouldn't make it to the bottom in the Amazon, but the last time I checked, glass boxes holding fish are even a far less natural common occurrence there.

So to answer the question, for the same reason it is ill-advised to feed oscars goldfish (I will admit I used to), you don't feed pinkies to rays. They both are high in fat and the nutritional value just isn't there.

I see some posts have addressed this point far better than I just have, such as RD related post above, so to the OP I hope this answers your question.

 

[Energy]

Somebody kick me, but I'm about to agree with DavidW.


While pinkie mice are relatively high in protein (approx 64%) and relatively high in fat (approx 17%) warm blooded animals contain the wrong type of fat, which harden within a cold blooded fish, and over time can eventually lead to blockages & fatty deposits around the liver. Also, the relative proportions of amino acids within the mammalian proteins are different to those required by fish, so much of that 64% protein will be excreted as nitrogenous waste placing an extra burden on your bio filtration.


There is no need to perform any experiments, overall pinkie mice are a piss poor food choice for any species of stingray.

RD knows his stuff- I'd trust his opinion.

As for the others- I believe he was asking about whether or not it would be wise to feed Pinkies-not if they swim in the amazon

Anyway it's easy to get off topic-

Wouldn't some mammalian protein be in their diet? I am sure mammals die and sink to the bottom in the amazon and therefore become a viable food source.

 

[DavidW]

I believe he was asking about whether or not it would be wise to feed Pinkies-not if they swim in the amazon.....
Wouldn't some mammalian protein be in their diet? I am sure mammals die and sink to the bottom in the amazon and therefore become a viable food source.

The relevance is this: the most success with any fish ( or any other captive group) is by mimicking their natural diet and habitat as closely as possible.

Dead mammals tend to float.
There are many ultra-aggressive species of fish etc in the Amazon that would devour any unfortunate mammal long before it got to the bottom. Piranha and Cayman are endemic

However, they are your rays, so do what you want with them, that is your and the OP's right, no matter how ill advised it may be.

I have suggested why it is not a good idea and doesn't make any sense to feed pinkies. Here's another: frozen might shock your ray, and fresh will pollute your tank. Rays are messy eaters as they grind their food.
R.D has given other good reasons.
Be sure to let us know how it goes

 

[ScubaGuy]

Somebody kick me, but I'm about to agree with DavidW.

While pinkie mice are relatively high in protein (approx 64%) and relatively high in fat (approx 17%) warm blooded animals contain the wrong type of fat, which harden within a cold blooded fish, and over time can eventually lead to blockages & fatty deposits around the liver. Also, the relative proportions of amino acids within the mammalian proteins are different to those required by fish, so much of that 64% protein will be excreted as nitrogenous waste placing an extra burden on your bio filtration.


There is no need to perform any experiments, overall pinkie mice are a piss poor food choice for any species of stingray.

Thanks RD for the nutritional information. It was exactly the information I wanted.

Let me state what some of you have missed. These pinkies are dead, frozen, etc. He is not feeding the rays them for entertainment. .

Thanks Unannon for reading the post.

I have had reptiles for many years and it has never been about thrill of seeing something killed. It has been about the nutrition and for certain reptiles frozen mice/pinkies are the best.

As for proceeding with this, its a no go. I only have "cheap" rays (motoros and Retics) but they are priceless to me!

Thanks all for the good info