Piranha Live Feeding Ethics Thread.

[JoeDizzleMPLS]

i dont see how any of those statements are erroneous at all do you know what the definiton of erroneous is?

i do know what the definition of erroneous is, and as i said before, you are in over your head

 

[Hdeuce]

are you kidding me? this whole discussion was started about the ethics of live feeding videos, you proceeded to make the point that no matter what happens, people will have a negative view of piranhas because they "have a mouth full of sharp teeth and they look scary", i then informed you that your viewpoint is the exact perception that we are trying to change.

i have brought up many points and explained why serious hobbyists frown upon such videos, and now you are saying that i haven't brought up one relevent point? you admitted that you have never owned a piranha, i think that is a pretty valid point to bring up when someone as uneducated as yourself tries to argue the behavior of a fish with someone that has many years of experience with them.

i never argued that people would always have a negative view of pirahnas because they have a mouth full of sharp teeth you are taking my words out of context . I argued That if people are not taught the true nature of the fish they will never accept them because of the way they look. Also my perception is not necessarily the same as what i believe the publics perception to be. Next you say that serious hobbyists frown upon the live feeding videos because they scare the public, Again i state the same argument , the live feeding videos would be fine with an educated public the reason it scares the public is because they do not know the true nature of the pirahna. And lastly , I have not argued once with you on the behavior or nature of the pirahna, as i stated in a recent post this argument has had more to do with human bevior than with fish behavior .

 

[JoeDizzleMPLS]

Anyway this discussion did start as a debate on the ethics of live feeding of pirahnas , but quickly evolved into a debate on whether or not the public should be educated on a pirahnas behaviour , its unfortunate that someone who owns pirahnas feels that their true nature shouldnt be shown to the public because as ive said before i feel like that is why people are afraid of pirahnas.

there is a big difference between seeing piranhas in the wild feeding on a carcass floating in the water and someone tossing a live animal into a tank where they are trapped and are at the mercy of the piranhas in the tank... you can sit and argue all you want, but it would be hard to find a respected member of the piranha keeping hobby that condones activities such as live feeding videos... they are mostly supported by those that are new to the hobby that don't know any better.

 

[Hdeuce]

The truth of the matter is, that feeding a pirahna a mouse and feeding a snake a mouse is the same thing. The problem you have doesnt seem to be with the ethics of live feeding but with the ethics of videotaping it. To me the thought is insane. If it is ethical to do, it is just as ethical to videotape it. It seems to me that you want to keep the public ignorant of the fact that pirahnas are capable of quickly killing and eating a mammal, if its a live fish no prob, . I take a completely opposite viewpoint and say that educating the public on the danger of such fish should create more safety precautions around the fish . And in doing so prevent injury due to underestimating the fish , and therefore help to lift the bans on keeping them.

 

[JoeDizzleMPLS]

it is not the same thing, you are talking about a snake that has a diet that consists mainly of small mammals and a fish that has a diet that is 97% fish and fish parts... please explain to me how these diets are the same.

the fact is that piranhas mainly eat fish, just like any other predatory fish... for someone to make it seem like they have a diet that is any different than any other predatory fish is perpetuating a myth that has been running strong among the uneducated public. by you arguing so hard to stand by these facts only proves that you are uneducated on the subject.

by your standards, i could make the claim that a ball python's diet consists mainly of fish... pretty interesting, huh?

 

[Negrodamus]

The truth of the matter is, that feeding a pirahna a mouse and feeding a snake a mouse is the same thing. The problem you have doesnt seem to be with the ethics of live feeding but with the ethics of videotaping it. To me the thought is insane. If it is ethical to do, it is just as ethical to videotape it. It seems to me that you want to keep the public ignorant of the fact that pirahnas are capable of quickly killing and eating a mammal, if its a live fish no prob, . I take a completely opposite viewpoint and say that educating the public on the danger of such fish should create more safety precautions around the fish . And in doing so prevent injury due to underestimating the fish , and therefore help to lift the bans on keeping them.

I think what joe is saying is that
Live feeding videos flooded onto the internet and youtube promote irresponsible piranha keeping. Every schmoe wants a piranha tank (they don’t schoal btw) and given the right horrible circumstances, these fish will become vicious, as im sure your pitbull would. But I have kept piranhas for a while, and I keep them in the best possible conditions, and they arent vicious like that, same as your pitbull plays well with kids. They are aggressive fish, no doubt, but so are a lot of pets.
However, there isnt much info to the common person besides these horrible videos, which show how a few people treat their piranhas, and how they act as a result of being fed mice and gold fish all the time, it leads people to go out and get them. People who don’t know what they are doiing, with no real interest in the fish as an animal, but as a trash compactor.
The fact of the matter is that no responsible piranha keeper would ever feed a mouse to their fish. Its just stupid, it messes the water, it doesn’t do well for their digestive system, and on and on. Feeding piranhas mice or whatever, is not the end of the world, but putting a video of it online promotes stupidity to the masses who only want to see a quick kill, and these are not the type of people who should be keeping the fish that I love.

 

[Hdeuce]

it is not the same thing, you are talking about a snake that has a diet that consists mainly of small mammals and a fish that has a diet that is 97% fish and fish parts... please explain to me how these diets are the same.

the fact is that piranhas mainly eat fish, just like any other predatory fish... for someone to make it seem like they have a diet that is any different than any other predatory fish is perpetuating a myth that has been running strong among the uneducated public. by you arguing so hard to stand by these facts only proves that you are uneducated on the subject.

by your standards, i could make the claim that a ball python's diet consists mainly of fish... pretty interesting, huh?

You are again putting words into my mouth , which you continue to do. I did not and would not say that a pirahanas diet consists mainly of mammals. What i said is that from an ethical standpoint feed a pirahna a mouse is the same as feeding a snake a mouse. Now as far as a ball python eating fish, its the same as a pirahna eating a mouse, they would if they came across one that they could easily eat. I have not perpetuated any myths i merely said that feeding a pirahna a mouse and video taping it should not affect the publics view of them if they were properly educated. For some reason all night long you have been arguing against the fact that the public should be educated on the truth about pirahna. If there were a video tape of someone feeding a python a fish it would not stir any controversy but for some reason there is controversy about feeding a pirahna a mouse. Its unbelievable that some one who holds himself in such high regard as a pirahna advocate would argue that there is merit to this controversy so steadfastly.

 

[Hdeuce]

I think what joe is saying is that
Live feeding videos flooded onto the internet and youtube promote irresponsible piranha keeping. Every schmoe wants a piranha tank (they don’t schoal btw) and given the right horrible circumstances, these fish will become vicious, as im sure your pitbull would. But I have kept piranhas for a while, and I keep them in the best possible conditions, and they arent vicious like that, same as your pitbull plays well with kids. They are aggressive fish, no doubt, but so are a lot of pets.
However, there isnt much info to the common person besides these horrible videos, which show how a few people treat their piranhas, and how they act as a result of being fed mice and gold fish all the time, it leads people to go out and get them. People who don’t know what they are doiing, with no real interest in the fish as an animal, but as a trash compactor.
The fact of the matter is that no responsible piranha keeper would ever feed a mouse to their fish. Its just stupid, it messes the water, it doesn’t do well for their digestive system, and on and on. Feeding piranhas mice or whatever, is not the end of the world, but putting a video of it online promotes stupidity to the masses who only want to see a quick kill, and these are not the type of people who should be keeping the fish that I love.

I see your point of view. and understand where you are coming from, Its the same thing with pitbulls and canary dogs people get them for the wrong reasons raise them the wrong way and they become the stereotype of the reason people fight so vehemently against them. However, if used correctly those same videos could be shown to prove the dangers of such a creature and educate the public on the proper safety precautions to take around such a dangerous fish. As docile as they can be if you were to not feed your tank for a few weeks then come home. Probably wouldnt be smart to stick your hand in the tank, knowing that they could easily take a nice chunk out of it, and because you are educated on the fact that they could hurt you . you probably wouldnt . Its education that will help any animal ban get lifted not ignorance.

 

[JoeDizzleMPLS]

how am i putting words in your mouth? you are the one that stated that feeding a snake a live mouse and feeding a piranha a live mouse is the same thing... it is not. small mammals are the main part of a snakes diet, they are not even a factor within a piranhas diet.

i am all about showing people the truth about piranhas, but you are only proving my point by saying that i should just accept the fact that these videos on youtube present true piranha behavior... if you remember correctly, a piranhas diet is 97% fish, so these kids throwing mice, snakes, and ducks into their piranha tanks on a regular basis are not showing true piranha feeding behavior, they are throwing **** into their tanks because they think it is cool to watch their fish tear things apart.

 

[JoeDizzleMPLS]

I see your point of view. and understand where you are coming from, Its the same thing with pitbulls and canary dogs people get them for the wrong reasons raise them the wrong way and they become the stereotype of the reason people fight so vehemently against them. However, if used correctly those same videos could be shown to prove the dangers of such a creature and educate the public on the proper safety precautions to take around such a dangerous fish. As docile as they can be if you were to not feed your tank for a few weeks then come home. Probably wouldnt be smart to stick your hand in the tank, knowing that they could easily take a nice chunk out of it, and because you are educated on the fact that they could hurt you . you probably wouldnt . Its education that will help any animal ban get lifted not ignorance.

now you are bringing up the issue of good and bad intentions... obviously it is unethical to teach your dog to be violent, so creating videos of your dog doing bad things is probably not going to make people think very highly of it... are we then to assume that all dogs are bad and that they are all dangerous?

do you know how many people have been killed by piranhas?

the answer is zero

piranhas can bite, there is no question about that, but to sit here and argue about their status as dangerous animals seems a bit ridiculous considering the fact there have been more people killed by dogs in the past month than people killed by piranhas in the last century.