Polypterus_36's Cuban gar thread

[The Masked Shadow]

It must be something related to your water. Maybe test PH, GH, etc from Chicago and test your water. My guess is that it was probably prolonged because it was happening internally, and is just now showing. duanes

 

[Hao]

Thank you all for your input.

In my mind, having read all this, I'd say I only can think of the thiaminase, as I initially proposed, and the water.

Both krill and silversides have high levels of thiaminase. Skeletal problems are very likely when a young, actively growing fish experiences a vitamin B1 shortage. As I said, please, soak whatever feed you give your gars in Vitamin B1 solution or in VitaChem. This will easily and quickly let us know if this hypothesis has any merit to it!

Second, water parameters. We must know them. You must have these tests - by API liquid tests - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH, and GH. Also temp and TDS. All of these testers can be had for under $50 (all together) and quickly. We ain't got time. Gotta get them all today-tomorrow and test everything. If you are serious about fish keeping and wanna keep serious fish (and $2,000+ worth of fish is pretty serious), must have and use the tests.

Don't worry about embarrassment or anything like this. I'd suggest to worry about losing your fish, and about not learning, let it be from bad or from good. Look at my dead fish thread - I've killed more valuable fish than anyone I know. It makes me a bad keeper but I try to learn from every loss.


Thank you Hao. I didn't know this about the cubans. Is there a source where I can read up on this claim with explanations etc.?

You can find a lot of valuable information from E_americanus by searching Cuban gars under his name through the search bar on MFK.
Here is one of them:
Cuban gars and water hardiness | MonsterFishKeepers.com

 

[Polypterus_36]

Thank you all for your input.

In my mind, having read all this, I'd say I only can think of the thiaminase, as I initially proposed, and the water.

Both krill and silversides have high levels of thiaminase. Skeletal problems are very likely when a young, actively growing fish experiences a vitamin B1 shortage. As I said, please, soak whatever feed you give your gars in Vitamin B1 solution or in VitaChem. This will easily and quickly let us know if this hypothesis has any merit to it!

Second, water parameters. We must know them. You must have these tests - by API liquid tests - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, KH, and GH. Also temp and TDS. All of these testers can be had for under $50 (all together) and quickly. We ain't got time. Gotta get them all today-tomorrow and test everything. If you are serious about fish keeping and wanna keep serious fish (and $2,000+ worth of fish is pretty serious), must have and use the tests.

Don't worry about embarrassment or anything like this. I'd suggest to worry about losing your fish, and about not learning, let it be from bad or from good. Look at my dead fish thread - I've killed more valuable fish than anyone I know. It makes me a bad keeper but I try to learn from every loss.


Thank you Hao. I didn't know this about the cubans. Is there a source where I can read up on this claim with explanations etc.?

Tried to go get a water testing kit, but my local pet stores were all closed by the time I finished my other work.
I will try to order a nice kit online soon.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

You can find a lot of valuable information from E_americanus by searching Cuban gars under his name through the search bar on MFK.
Here is one of them:
Cuban gars and water hardiness | MonsterFishKeepers.com

Thank you so much, Hao.

Polypterus, if you read that short thread Hao linked, you will see again the importance of knowing all water parameters that can be readily known. And Xander did well reporting his test results, over time and before and after a WC.

You can order all tests online right now.

 

[Polypterus_36]

Thank you so much, Hao.

Polypterus, if you read that short thread Hao linked, you will see again the importance of knowing all water parameters that can be readily known. And Xander did well reporting his test results, over time and before and after a WC.

You can order all tests online right now.

I have read that thread before when researching before buying the gar.
My tank does have a very old piece a driftwood in it that I have had for years, so I'm not sure how much softer it makes the water (or if it really lowers the ph at all). What confuses me is that my tap water is on the harder side, which is what Cuban gar prefer. Although, I am considering adding aragonite substrate to help with the ph hardness and buffering.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

IDK if this is getting psychotic on my part but you have scared me and I have been staring at our 7 cubans trying to see the beginnings of the curved "backness". I fear I see this in two of them. Hard to say for sure yet. Time will tell.

 

[Polypterus_36]

IDK if this is getting psychotic on my part but you have scared me and I have been staring at our 7 cubans trying to see the beginnings of the curved "backness". I fear I see this in two of them. Hard to say for sure yet. Time will tell.

Let's hope it's not. We do live very close so the water quality may be similar. Maybe send a photo of what you see and Hao can check. He noticed the beginnings of my Cuban gar bending.

BTW, I ordered an API liquid master test kit. The only issue is that it is coming on Thursday, which is later than what I wanted.

 

[stingrayguy]

Brad here with Chicago Stingrays.

At my shop we run R/O water with well water mixed back in to produce a TDS of 300-325, ph is 6.9-7.10. The gar are fed floating arowana pellets (once or twice a week) and then primarily stingray food… tilapia, shrimp and mussels. I still have probably 45 of them here and not a single gar is showing any curve to their backs. I’d recommend the diet change asap and see what happens.

 

[Polypterus_36]

Brad here with Chicago Stingrays.

At my shop we run R/O water with well water mixed back in to produce a TDS of 300-325, ph is 6.9-7.10. The gar are fed floating arowana pellets (once or twice a week) and then primarily stingray food… tilapia, shrimp and mussels. I still have probably 45 of them here and not a single gar is showing any curve to their backs. I’d recommend the diet change asap and see what happens.

Planning on changing them onto pellets and cut fish.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Brad here with Chicago Stingrays.

At my shop we run R/O water with well water mixed back in to produce a TDS of 300-325, ph is 6.9-7.10. The gar are fed floating arowana pellets (once or twice a week) and then primarily stingray food… tilapia, shrimp and mussels. I still have probably 45 of them here and not a single gar is showing any curve to their backs. I’d recommend the diet change asap and see what happens.

Thank you for this, Brad. We do precisely the same here, 85% RO filtered + 15% raw well water. TDS 330 ppm. pH 7.2. KH ~6 degrees = well buffered against any pH changes.

I too would mention for the record that Brad and I spoke and

- neither Brad with his about 150 gars,
- nor his friend in the Netherlands with another 150 of the same cuban gar,
- nor the breeder from Indonesia

have observed any problems with the gar backs.

Brad also tells me that Polypterus and I are the only two from Florida that bought his cubans. Our water may carry similar traits, although I must state that Polypterus' water seems to be the tap water, municipal, large scale source, big city. I am 1-hour away from him in a small town, country side, and our water, as just stated, is made inhouse.