Punching Holes In Fins To Reduce Aggression?

[VRWC]

damn, I knew I shouldn't have assumed it was lightning

Yep, you know what they say about people assuming things....same thing they say about people making posts irrelevant to the topic of a thread (or taking the time to grammatically correct someone when it has NOTHING to do with the topic).

Good Job on proving "what they say".

 

[AcsFoolMike]

Yep, you know what they say about people assuming things....same thing they say about people making posts irrelevant to the topic of a thread (or taking the time to grammatically correct someone when it has NOTHING to do with the topic).

Good Job on proving "what they say".

Guilty.

I have to admit my feeling on the matter has changed a bit since reading through this thread. If I don't have a problem with clipping a bird's wings or neutering a dog then it seems hypocritical for me to have a major issue with this. I still think the best option would be acquiring a large enough tank for the species you wish to keep and breed, but I don't have as much of a problem with it from a moral standpoint as I did when the thread initially opened.

 

[Stateofficer1984]

Ive read good things,and Ive read bad things, but I dont care what anyone says Don Conkel is the man for the effort he put into this hobby... Believe it or not, unless your fish is wild caught it prolly got some of his bloodline in it!!!

 

[greenterra]

Guilty.

I have to admit my feeling on the matter has changed a bit since reading through this thread. If I don't have a problem with clipping a bird's wings or neutering a dog then it seems hypocritical for me to have a major issue with this. I still think the best option would be acquiring a large enough tank for the species you wish to keep and breed, but I don't have as much of a problem with it from a moral standpoint as I did when the thread initially opened.

Not really a fair comparison IMO. A birds feathers will always grow back no different to before the wings were clipped. De-sexing a dog does not effect it's ability to walk. To make it comparable, you would have to remove part of it's leg bone in a way that would not allow it to rejoin correctly. While all the tissue would be there, the leg would be a useless floppy accessory. This is more like the hole punching in fish. The idea is to damage the fin ray. The tissue/fin membrane usually grows back or covers over but the fin is pretty much a useless floppy accessory without the support of intact fin rays to support it.

 

[AcsFoolMike]

Not really a fair comparison IMO. A birds feathers will always grow back no different to before the wings were clipped. De-sexing a dog does not effect it's ability to walk. To make it comparable, you would have to remove part of it's leg bone in a way that would not allow it to rejoin correctly. While all the tissue would be there, the leg would be a useless floppy accessory. This is more like the hole punching in fish. The idea is to damage the fin ray. The tissue/fin membrane usually grows back or covers over but the fin is pretty much a useless floppy accessory without the support of intact fin rays to support it.

I feel the neutering of the dog is a much fairer comparison than you give it credit. What purpose does the dog have in life other than to procreate and pass on the gene pool to the next generation? When you take that away, you are essentially taking away what the dog was created to do. If that's not cruel, then I don't know what is.

 

[Jc1119]

I feel the neutering of the dog is a much fairer comparison than you give it credit. What purpose does the dog have in life other than to procreate and pass on the gene pool to the next generation? When you take that away, you are essentially taking away what the dog was created to do. If that's not cruel, then I don't know what is.

If the dog is intended to be a pet, then what cruelty is there really? Both of my dogs have been spayed and I gotta tell you, Ive never seen two happier dogs in my life. Passing the gene pool is not in the agenda, but being a famliy pet is.

i think breaking a dogs legs is closer to what would be done equally to a fish by punching holes in the fins. I dont think either of my dogs would be happy at all with their legs broken, but could care less if they procreated or not. They are too busy going on family trips, rolling in the grass, running around the yard, sleeping in our bed, all with the use of their legs.

But as far as puching holes, I guess i can see why some folks chose to do it in a breeding situation......but i do not agree with it at all.....the ONLY agenda in the animals life is procreating and passing down the gene pool. Seems pretty cruel too

 

[AcsFoolMike]

If the dog is intended to be a pet, then what cruelty is there really? Both of my dogs have been spayed and I gotta tell you, Ive never seen two happier dogs in my life. Passing the gene pool is not in the agenda, but being a famliy pet is.

i think breaking a dogs legs is closer to what would be done equally to a fish by punching holes in the fins. I dont think either of my dogs would be happy at all with their legs broken, but could care less if they procreated or not. They are too busy going on family trips, rolling in the grass, running around the yard, sleeping in our bed, all with the use of their legs.

But as far as puching holes, I guess i can see why some folks chose to do it in a breeding situation......but i do not agree with it at all.....the ONLY agenda in the animals life is procreating and passing down the gene pool. Seems pretty cruel too

Being the family pet is YOUR agenda for the dog, but it's not the reason for the dog living. Listen, I don't agree with punching holes in fins; All I was stating was that it seems hypocritical for me to have a problem with this when I don't mind altering other pets to suit my needs (ie. birds, dogs, cats). I would never do it myself, but, to me, it doesn't seem leaps and bounds from the other examples I gave.

 

[Pomatomus]

Not really a fair comparison IMO. A birds feathers will always grow back no different to before the wings were clipped. De-sexing a dog does not effect it's ability to walk. To make it comparable, you would have to remove part of it's leg bone in a way that would not allow it to rejoin correctly. While all the tissue would be there, the leg would be a useless floppy accessory. This is more like the hole punching in fish. The idea is to damage the fin ray. The tissue/fin membrane usually grows back or covers over but the fin is pretty much a useless floppy accessory without the support of intact fin rays to support it.

Umm actually fin rays do grow back. Spines often do not. I have never seen a fish with a "floppy" (rayless) fin. However, I can tell you that very recently I saw a fire goby grow back its dorsal fin from a stub to its full potential. And that's not the only time I've witnessed such recovery, just the most recent example. So I actually found it to be a decent analogy.

 

[mshill90]

Umm actually fin rays do grow back. Spines often do not. I have never seen a fish with a "floppy" (rayless) fin. However, I can tell you that very recently I saw a fire goby grow back its dorsal fin from a stub to its full potential. And that's not the only time I've witnessed such recovery, just the most recent example. So I actually found it to be a decent analogy.

I think this depends on the fish actually.. I have noticed that fish with thicker spinage in their fins it often only heals and never grows. I've noticed with koi.

 

[High City Rida]

I would buy from Gage or Don anyday as I have in the past. No I wouldn't put holes in my Dovii's tale but the topic at had has been heard for many years from my understanding. My question is REALLY how many people here on MFK are really going to ever have this as a problem? Meaning I am willing to bet 89% of his repeat buisness is here on MFK for a reason. REALITY is he can breed his stock most here are just trying to replace the one sp that they keep loosing over and over. No I don't think they will ever even get the chance to raise a Male Dovii to reasonable size to even think about puching a hole in it's tail imo....