Quastion, Wild caught vs farmed

Tommytipper87

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So my question is... Will wild caught fish always preduce the best colours or can farmed fish that you get in a store or online be just as colourful? Let's use the festae cichlid as that's the next fish on my list. I've been online and I've seen a store thats selling them at £10.50 each at 1.3 inches, the staff member said he doesn't know if they are tank bred but has suppliers all around the world. Another site I went on has wild caught which are £30 each at about 3.5 inches. I understand the price difference being one lot are wild caught and the other I think most Likley are farmed else the guy would have them up for a higher price. What do you go for when choosing fish regards to wild, f1, f2 tank bred etc and if you was in my position what would you go for?
 

RD.

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Domestic fish can be just as colorful, sometimes due to line breeding, even more so, than wild caught. I personally prefer F1 vs wild, as the F1's have already gone through one generation of captivity and have adapted to living in a glass cage.
 

duanes

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Domestic fish can be just as colorful, sometimes due to line breeding, even more so, than wild caught. I personally prefer F1 vs wild, as the F1's have already gone through one generation of captivity and have adapted to living in a glass cage.
Agree with this.
And if what you are looking for is a fish that might relate better as a "pet", then tank raised over generations may also be your cup of tea.
A wild caught individual may still retain that instinctual, and well earned fear of humans, and spend more time hiding than in your viewing area when you want it to be.
I have wild caught Andinoacara at the moment, that even after a year in the tank, hide when I approach, and only if I sit motionless for at least 10 minutes, do they inch cautiously out. Of course this may vary individual to individual, in the same tank, I have a wild caught goby that has learned over less time, to beg like a dog.
18B077B6-B378-49A5-A547-EAC969537AB6_1_201_a.jpeg
If breeding is your aim, adding wild caught genes to the pool could be a good thing if they are from a brightly colored variant.....
That said
There is a breeder in the U.S. midwest that chooses the most colorful individuals as his breeding stock so the festae he brings are always intensely colored, and at juvie of @ 3" are usually $3-$5.
A couple of females he brought that I ended up with below.

Another thing to consider (alluded to above) is that populations from different areas (rivers or lakes) may vary widely in coloration, due to terrain, vegetation, turbidity, or substrate influencing what works best to avoid predation, or find mates for that particular area, so just being wild does not assure it is from one of the most highly colored populations.
An example might be individuals living in turbid conditions, where in order to attract a mate, a male might need to be more intently colored.
Or if a group of individuals lives over sandy substrate, and clear water conditions, this might favor lighter colors to avoid predation by birds.
Take these Herichthys carpintus shot from above over sand.
 

Rocksor

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Research the physical differences between wild festae and poorly inbred F# festae. As for colors, F1 will have colors pretty close to the wild parents, the difference being in exposure to natural sunlight versus being in doors. But that can be changed by simply putting the F1 in outdoor ponds during months where the water temperature doesn't dip below 70F.
 
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RD.

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Some of the most vibrant festae that I have seen over the years, have been tank bred and raised indoors. Probably the most common deformity that I have seen in that species is hooked snouts. There is an old thread on this subject, I’ll see if I can find it.

found it...

 
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DRUKENMUNKY

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Keep in mind also that when dealing with wild caught especially larger specimens there will be more effort into getting them on prepared foods such as non live. Also if you are introducing a wild caught specimen into an existing tank quarantine is a must for sure as you u want to make sure it is not carrying disease into your system. Take pbass for example. It really depends on the particilular fish u are looking for.....some fish are specifically bred for mass production in which the outcome may be a lowered quality fish whereas others are specifically line bred to higher quality. Captive bred will usually have a higher survival rate of course as well as mentioned
 

RD.

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All fish should be quarantined, wild and/or domestic.

I found the old thread that showed the festae with the deformed snouts.


The owner sold them as wild caught, I actually passed on this pair as the owner was 2 hrs away and didn't seem interested in sending pics, and wanted $$$ to hold the fish. Glad I passed. I also question them even being WC, who knows these days? It seems that a lot of fish raised in ponds in Central & South America are marketed as being wild fish. Either way a bunch of the offspring had this same trait. Not good, I would have never bred them. In fact I would have never bought them.
 

dan518

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Wild caught or f1 are only worth the extra $$ if your getting an exact location. The way new species keep getting described or reshuffled means a wild caught fish from too broad a location could be two or three distinct species. If you can not be certain of what species it is you may as well save a few quid and get a generic lfs one it will look the same.
 
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neutrino

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I think there's a few reasons for the mystique or belief that wild caught are more colorful. Sometimes it's a prestige and feel good factor to justify the extra expense. Sometimes it's the same basic breeding genetics that work for wilds, F1, or F100. It's in the genes of the particular parental combination or breeding line. If these happen to be inferior, it gets passed on that 'tank raised are less colorful than wild'. Or it might be diet, or some other environmental factor during development. If something's missing the fish needs or gets in the wild it gets passed on that wild fish look better.

For years frontosa forums claimed wild Zaire blue gibberosa were the best quality, F1 is still okay, but after that forget it, it goes downhill fast. A lot of people spent a lot of money because of that belief, as well as the prestige factor. Cyphotilapia are long lived, slower to begin breeding than most species, and produce relatively few fry vs. most cichlids. So, as new collection points were imported, you might get F1s within a reasonable time from the imported adult or sub-adult fish, but F2s were still a few years away, meaning in reality most people had no idea and were just repeating what they heard from someone else. It's apparent now the same rules work with Zaire blue gibberosa as any other fish, it's about the genetics, and a good parent combination and good breeding practices can produce F2 or F3 that look just as good as the wild grandparents. I've done it myself.

A few years ago I briefly and casually knew someone with wild C. dimerus. The wilds looked okay, their F1 offspring were amazing. A fortuitous combination of parents? Some other reason? Who knows. In any case it was evidence that wilds do not always produce the best color.
 

neutrino

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...Also, it depends on the source, I think. A careful vs. a haphazard breeder, a fish farm or breeding operation that cares about quality vs one that sells volume over quality.
 
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