Question about hybrid rays

[Zoodiver]

Right now they are all listed as seperate species... which is why some push so hard to avoid hybrid/cross bred animals.

They are also in the process of 'redoing' the classification of the various animals which fall under Potamotrygon.

I personally also feel the very vague description of what makes a species a species needs to be looked at when it comes to fish.

 

[Nic]

So the Potamotrygon are all subspecies of each other? And of course you meant all hybrid stingrays are able to breed and reproduce.

they have been rebreeding the hybrids in asia

 

[armac]

Right now they are all listed as seperate species... which is why some push so hard to avoid hybrid/cross bred animals.

They are also in the process of 'redoing' the classification of the various animals which fall under Potamotrygon.

I personally also feel the very vague description of what makes a species a species needs to be looked at when it comes to fish.

You are now back in Texas?

 

[rvrrays]

Jeremy (Duckman),

Let me start by saying, good to see you on the board.

With your background, you know the definitions and you use the terms correctly. I get very nervous when people start using terms like "hybrid" and "species" when referring to rays.

We simply do not know enough to use these terms when dealing with rays.

Colin

 

[csx4236]

Jeremy (Duckman),

Let me start by saying, good to see you on the board.

With your background, you know the definitions and you use the terms correctly. I get very nervous when people start using terms like "hybrid" and "species" when referring to rays.

We simply do not know enough to use these terms when dealing with rays.

Colin

Your correct with these concerns all we know is that Potamotrygon are all in same genus and there are many species that fall under this classification around 17. Also hybrid is wrong term to use when these rays crossbreed.

 

[biggfish]

Your correct with these concerns all we know is that Potamotrygon are all in same genus and there are many species that fall under this classification around 17. Also hybrid is wrong term to use when these rays crossbreed.

Should we call them a cross? Basically means the same right?

 

[rvrrays]

No. The terms do not mean the same thing. Hybrid implies that the offspring will be sterile. It also implies that the parents are two different and distinct species.

From what we have seen, offspring from a motoro x leopoldi are not sterile and we do not know if leopoldi and motoro are actually different species.

"Cross" would be a much better term to use.

Colin

 

[SovietFireExtinguisher]

I basically just think of them like dogs. If you breed two different breeds of dogs, (the most improbable I've ever seen was a Chihuahua X St. Bernard.) the offspring won't be sterile, but it sure as heck will not look like either parents either.

 

[rayman]

And the cross of different breeds of dogs is called hybrid dog ...
so why should we not speak of hybrids when we cross different rays?

Nice reading on wikipedia about hybrids:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)

Most interesting part for me:

When populations hybridize, often the first generation (F1) hybrids are very uniform. Typically, however, the individual members of subsequent hybrid generations are quite variable. High levels of variability in a natural population, then, are indicative of hybridity. Researchers use this fact to ascertain whether a population is of hybrid origin. Since such variability generally occurs only in later hybrid generations, the existence of variable hybrids is also an indication that the hybrids in question are fertile.

Maybe in freshwater stingrays we have hybridogenesis?

 

[Duckman77]

Jeremy (Duckman),

Let me start by saying, good to see you on the board.

With your background, you know the definitions and you use the terms correctly. I get very nervous when people start using terms like "hybrid" and "species" when referring to rays.

We simply do not know enough to use these terms when dealing with rays.

Colin

Hi Colin! I haven't spoken with you in a while. You still have that nice marble male? Still breeding him?

So we should be referring to these new rays as crosses (leo x pearl cross for example) instead of hybrid then?

As for the dog reference, it is my understanding that dog breeds are all results of selective breeding of the same species (Canus familiaris). Therefore crosses are not sterile (and not hybrids) because they are still the same species. Probably something similar for the rays, but naturally occurring?