Question for all you Armatus keepers.

[Push]

I think if you were going to go that route, you'd be best served finding larger tats (say 8-12") and a smaller armatus. Not so small that they'd eat/kill him, but that they could at least keep up with him growth wise. I do think your tank is large enough for an armatus, to answer your original question.

I'm still not convinced that the tats would be able to stay with the Arm, with the ability to hit 2+ feet in home aquariums and the fact that I haven't seen one tat past 12-14 inches I'm still not convinced that this would be a good pairing. Have we seen anyone out there that has coupled these two species together make it work long term?

I'm glad to hear that you guys are confident that my tank was large enough for at least one Armatus. I wasn't too sure considering the care guide says they can possibly get to 30+ inches and my previous inhabitant was pushing close to that mark as well but he was basically a living log and never really moved. I'm sure the Armatus is a completely different beast.

I'm gonna need to pick up some heaters and I have a feeling I'm gonna need a couple of very powerful powerheads. Do you guys have any recommendations for either? I'm gonna need heaters to maintain the 300 gallons at 80 degrees. Been a while since I've needed heaters but do you think 2 500w models would get the job done or should I be looking at something around 3 300w?

 

[Push]

Ok guys, got another question. I was speaking with my friend last night who has a very similar tank to the one I have (we both bought ours at the same time a few years back to cut down on shipping) the only difference is his is a 72x36x24 whereas mine is of course the 96x30x24. His also was plumbed for overflows so he could run a sump whereas mine is still intact just running 2 FX5s.

I told my friend that I was looking to replace my lost fish with an Armatus and he is under the impression that the extra width on the sides would be better for the Payara and he is wanting to trade me tanks as he is looking to get into Arowana keeping. It would basically be a straight trade for my 300 for his 270. Except that I also would be getting his 90 gallon sump and another FX5 in the trade. I'm kinda iffy on the whole thing as I have never really messed with sumps before and also I still think that I would be better off with the 96x30 over the 72x36 footprint.

What say you guys?

 

[DB junkie]

This sounds like the blind leading the blind.

There's only 1 way Tats and Armatus work and that is for a very short time. The Armatus outgrows them in no time and if the Armatus don't kill them then the Tats start stuff they can't finish and still end up dead. Armatus can grow in a month what some Tats barely grow in a year.

That tank is too small for an Armatus for life.

Group of Tats should work great. Maybe a mixed Characin tank? Tats, Rhaphiodons, Cudas, Brycon, and Odoe. All should be ok in that tank for life.

Myself, IF I was to put a single fish in a tank that size it would be an easy choice....... Aimara.

 

[djaalix]

i think, for an Armatus, the extra 6 inches of width is more important than 2 extra feet in length.... a 3 ft wide tank could probably house him for life, or at least until he breaks the 30 inch mark, which is difficult, and will take years.... also, i much prefer sumps over canisters, and your Armatus will greatly appreciate the extra Oxygen a sump will provide, not to mention the added biological filtration .... depending on how large your return pump is, you may be able to get away with 1 500 watt heater, or even 2 300 watt heaters, if you put them directly into the sump... i used 1 400 watt in the sump of my 220 and it maintained 82-83 degrees... i would make the trade if i were in your position .... as far as powerheads, i really like the hydor koralia magnum pumps, i have 3 magnum 8's in my 400 gallon, and my Armatus loves swimming in front of the one i have on the bottom of the tank to kick up debris

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[Push]

This sounds like the blind leading the blind.

There's only 1 way Tats and Armatus work and that is for a very short time. The Armatus outgrows them in no time and if the Armatus don't kill them then the Tats start stuff they can't finish and still end up dead. Armatus can grow in a month what some Tats barely grow in a year.

That tank is too small for an Armatus for life.

Group of Tats should work great. Maybe a mixed Characin tank? Tats, Rhaphiodons, Cudas, Brycon, and Odoe. All should be ok in that tank for life.

Myself, IF I was to put a single fish in a tank that size it would be an easy choice....... Aimara.

Wait I thought Rhaphs can get 24+ in size just like the Arms? I understand that they usually grow slower but the overall end result is the same? Also don't the Aimara regularly get larger than Armatus in the home aquarium. I've been scrolling through the other characin section and am regularly finding cases of Aimara of 27+ inches and I don't see how that would work with the 30 wide tank (maybe the shorter tank that is 36 inch wide)?

I like the wolves but it seems like they are often very lazy when it comes to movement unless they are feeding. If I am going to do a single specimen tank I would prefer to have something that moves as I've already had my fair share of experience with living logs.

 

[djaalix]

i'd agree that tats and Armatus together probably will not work long term.... and i agree that an aimara is another awesome fish that would do well solo..... i'd also say that a 30 inch aimara, since it swims around less, can do better in a 36 inch tank than an Armatus, however both are awesome fish and good choices for your tank.... it will take years for either one to outgrow your tank, if ever.... aimara are very expensive too, like 1000 dollars for a 6-8 incher while an Armatus 200-300 for the same sized specimen

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[DB junkie]

Aimara might cost more, but Armatus die for no reason. Nobody knows better then someone that's probably blown a few grand on them and have NO fish to show for it. Like it or not it's the fist of reality. Armatus are open water preds. Maybe this has something to do with why they don't seem to do as well in our glass boxes. We all know typically a fish gets bigger in the wild, but if we are providing for them why shouldn't they get bigger in captivity? I bet one would have a much better chance growing an Aimara closer to rod and reel records then Armatus.

Rhaphiodon females can reach 2' in the wild, males around 17". I kept one for about 5 years. Never saw a bigger one grown up in captivity. After a foot it went into a nice open pond. They aren't near as active as Armatus. I've kept 3 Rhaphs over the years. Probably over a dozen Armatus. Never had a Armatus break 18". The Rhaph was around 16" when it passed, IF it was a male I did ok, female not so great, but when compared to the Armatus I could barely get to half the size, clearly my systems treated the Rhaphs better.

Look into Aimara and talk to their owners, most will say they are far from the typical lazy log stereotype wolves have, even without stuff to chase. They are very aware of thier surroundings, stop right at the glass to flare their gills at you. If they hit the glass they meant it, they don't go through random bashings into the glass or lids like most Payara do. I had every species of Payara smash thier teeth out on multiple ocasions. Keep them long enough and you'll experience freakouts, wether random, net induced, light induced, or tankmate induced.

Not saying we won't ever be able to keep Armatus, but untill someone figures out the puzzle it's a fish I'd expect to loose for no reason. Only cause I have, time after time after time. Why put yourself through it? If you do/are I hope you're keeping notes. Eventually someones got to figure it out.

I'd personally get the wider tank, but that's only cause I'd never keep a tank without rays on the bottom.......

Don't mean to sidetrack your thread, but I helped write the Payara captive care guide a long time ago, I am very pasionate about these fish, but there's a sad truth truth to them that not many will admit until they give up on keeping them.

 

[Push]

Aimara might cost more, but Armatus die for no reason. Nobody knows better then someone that's probably blown a few grand on them and have NO fish to show for it. Like it or not it's the fist of reality. Armatus are open water preds. Maybe this has something to do with why they don't seem to do as well in our glass boxes. We all know typically a fish gets bigger in the wild, but if we are providing for them why shouldn't they get bigger in captivity? I bet one would have a much better chance growing an Aimara closer to rod and reel records then Armatus.

Rhaphiodon females can reach 2' in the wild, males around 17". I kept one for about 5 years. Never saw a bigger one grown up in captivity. After a foot it went into a nice open pond. They aren't near as active as Armatus. I've kept 3 Rhaphs over the years. Probably over a dozen Armatus. Never had a Armatus break 18". The Rhaph was around 16" when it passed, IF it was a male I did ok, female not so great, but when compared to the Armatus I could barely get to half the size, clearly my systems treated the Rhaphs better.

Look into Aimara and talk to their owners, most will say they are far from the typical lazy log stereotype wolves have, even without stuff to chase. They are very aware of thier surroundings, stop right at the glass to flare their gills at you. If they hit the glass they meant it, they don't go through random bashings into the glass or lids like most Payara do. I had every species of Payara smash thier teeth out on multiple ocasions. Keep them long enough and you'll experience freakouts, wether random, net induced, light induced, or tankmate induced.

Not saying we won't ever be able to keep Armatus, but untill someone figures out the puzzle it's a fish I'd expect to loose for no reason. Only cause I have, time after time after time. Why put yourself through it? If you do/are I hope you're keeping notes. Eventually someones got to figure it out.

I'd personally get the wider tank, but that's only cause I'd never keep a tank without rays on the bottom.......

Don't mean to sidetrack your thread, but I helped write the Payara captive care guide a long time ago, I am very pasionate about these fish, but there's a sad truth truth to them that not many will admit until they give up on keeping them.

No need to apologize DB, I really appreciate you chiming in as I have noticed through research that you are very knowledgeable about these guys. I would definitely be interested in the Aimara but again the overall size and the capability of it to reach said size has me a little weary. Not to mention the overall brutal nature of large Aimaras is a little intimidating. How does one go about moving a 30+ inch specimen if they had to without getting their hands shredded?

Another thing I don't understand is seeing videos like this, and seeing as how so many here in the western world believe it to be bad practice to not overstock, and feeding live and yet somehow people have such success with these specimens doing these very things. There has to be something we aren't doing that the Japanese are.

[video=youtube;EQDbCQQZIio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQDbCQQZIio[/video]


After seeing things like this I am half tempted on getting the Armatus and keeping it on live goldfish feeders just to see how that experiment goes. From my understanding it seems like people that keep them on live seem to be having a much higher success rate than those that ween theirs off early on in favor of prepared foods.

I'm still not against the wolf fish idea, or for that matter just getting a medium size shoal of Tats.

So pretty much all you guys think I would be better off trading my tank off for the wider 270 gallon?

 

[djaalix]

i agree DB with Armatus def being a more delicate fish..... i had 2 die at just under a foot, and have one at about a foot now, and i'm always watching his behavior the most to see any signs or change in behavior so i'd agree Armatus is more risky

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[krichardson]

Another thing I don't understand is seeing videos like this, and seeing as how so many here in the western world believe it to be bad practice to not overstock, and feeding live and yet somehow people have such success with these specimens doing these very things. There has to be something we aren't doing that the Japanese are.
After seeing things like this I am half tempted on getting the Armatus and keeping it on live goldfish feeders just to see how that experiment goes. From my understanding it seems like people that keep them on live seem to be having a much higher success rate than those that ween theirs off early on in favor of prepared foods.

Yeah.I have seen plenty of videos of fish from Japan that were fed goldfish and my guess is that the goldfish must be better kept than feeders here are.They are probably fed well and kept in good water....That was quite a sight to see so many nice sized armatus and I bet that gar probably cost more than my car.



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