Red tail blue Convicts!

[Super G]

I thought we already established that they were hybrids. Just because you hybridize fish and then "line breed" them, it doesn't make them pure.

Wrong again. better luck next time.

 

[thefishguy7]

Wrong again. better luck next time.

No, you are wrong again. Line breeding hybrids doesn't make them pure. These are neither pure convict nor pure hrp, they are a result of your "line-breeding", I'd just call it inbreeding. There is no such thing as a pure flowerhorn, even if you breed two from the same batch of fry. Pure hybrids?
I am not impressed by the colors, seems to be reflected off the blue gravel. However, I am impressed by their size.

 

[dominicolas]

I think you have nice fish man, just quit calling them pure. I think way more people would approve if you just stopped imbelishing and called them what they are. I've got some cons that cant come close to as nice yours, but just call them what they are which are hybrids.

 

[WildCAught]

I have fish that are from different tributeries of the same river system I keep separate. That's just the way it should be. If you look at Soto's recent revision of Archocentrus, A. nigrofasiatus (convicts) were broken down into 4 species, most certainly all the domestic convicts are a combination of crosses of these 4 species, plus some other Cryptoheros over time. I've never seen a wild nigrofasiatus over 3". but there are 6-7" domestic convicts in the hobby. C Spilurus has been divided into two species, The brown northern group is now a new species from the golden southern group which is C. spilurus. C cutteri was raise to species status (and should have been a long time ago) and had been considered a sub species of C. spilurus. Jack Dempseys were broken into 3 species, ect, ect. And he did not even take into account where the Honduran Red Point fits into all this. I know I have 4-5 species of Cryptoheros I collected in Honduras that are new or different undiscribed species or at least subspecies. These should be kept pure.
I don't mind what people do to their fish, what they cross them with as long as they are not put on the market as pure fish. Look at all the I.D. thread that appear here and on other forums, Many are hybrid fish traded into pet shops an sold as something else. It's shame, keep them pure. Ken

Really, Ken?

I'm not doubting your experiences, but where I fish in El Salvador I routinely see five inchers. There were also a couple 6 inchers. We caught a male that was 7 inches total length he butchered a couple of larger motags in a rubbermaid and made a few hop out. Those are definitely nigrofasciatus. That's just my experience though.

I strongly agree with the rest of the paragraph.

 

[dominicolas]

Really, Ken?

I'm not doubting your experiences, but where I fish in El Salvador I routinely see five inchers. There were also a couple 6 inchers. We caught a male that was 7 inches total length he butchered a couple of larger motags in a rubbermaid and made a few hop out. Those are definitely nigrofasciatus. That's just my experience though.

I strongly agree with the rest of the paragraph.

I don't claim to know more than you, but is it possible that you are running into a population of reintroduced hybrids, or natural hybrids for that matter? I don't really know if that is common where you are but it happens all the time amongst American sunfish species. I guess it kind of depends on the amount of seclusion of your spot in el salvador. Just something to think about, you know.

 

[WildCAught]

I don't claim to know more than you, but is it possible that you are running into a population of reintroduced hybrids, or natural hybrids for that matter? I don't really know if that is common where you are but it happens all the time amongst American sunfish species. I guess it kind of depends on the amount of seclusion of your spot in el salvador. Just something to think about, you know.

Thats not impossible but who the heck would do that? Not trying to be an ass or anything but It's been like that since I was there in the 80's. Convicts are so common, there would be no need to reintroduce them. The place I'm from is difficult to get to as it is up in the mountains, in fact, electricity just started being hooked up about 8 years ago. The road is about 5 miles of winding uphill path and the best time you'll make is about 30 minutes on 4x4. Your next option is horseback or on foot. The main road is still dirt and rock. Very secluded. It's a farming town surrounded by jungle. Everybody knows everybody there, so if someone had the resources to introduce hybrid fish I would have known about it.

That probably comes off as arrogant but please take it in the spirit it is intended. I know the place like the back of my hand and can name every single family in the area. When outsiders come in it's a pretty big event. I highly doubt that hybrid convicts were introduced and I can go as far as saying that with 100% certainty.

As far as natural hybrids it's only Cons and Motas in this locale. There are JD's and other vieja types on our side of the border of El salvador and Honduras (I'm not great on ID'ing viejas). Trimac are to the north in lakes closer to Guatemala.

Anyway, I don't want to re-derail this thread.

 

[fishfarm]

I've seen your post here and on other forums about collecting in your country, I don't doubt that they have some big nigrofasiatus in El Salvador, I'd like to got there and do some collecting myself. The only wild convicts I have collected were in the Rio Chuloteca in western Honduras and they were all small. I have cutteri in my tanks that are much larger than any we have ever collected in the wild, I think in most of Honduras they have just been eaten by people if they get very big and in a tank we feed them better so they grow faster. Ken

 

[dominicolas]

Thats not impossible but who the heck would do that? Not trying to be an ass or anything but It's been like that since I was there in the 80's. Convicts are so common, there would be no need to reintroduce them. The place I'm from is difficult to get to as it is up in the mountains, in fact, electricity just started being hooked up about 8 years ago. The road is about 5 miles of winding uphill path and the best time you'll make is about 30 minutes on 4x4. Your next option is horseback or on foot. The main road is still dirt and rock. Very secluded. It's a farming town surrounded by jungle. Everybody knows everybody there, so if someone had the resources to introduce hybrid fish I would have known about it.

That probably comes off as arrogant but please take it in the spirit it is intended. I know the place like the back of my hand and can name every single family in the area. When outsiders come in it's a pretty big event. I highly doubt that hybrid convicts were introduced and I can go as far as saying that with 100% certainty.

As far as natural hybrids it's only Cons and Motas in this locale. There are JD's and other vieja types on our side of the border of El salvador and Honduras (I'm not great on ID'ing viejas). Trimac are to the north in lakes closer to Guatemala.

Anyway, I don't want to re-derail this thread.

I don't think that was arrogant at all. All you did was provide info. I just like to point out all the possibilities, but with that description I am convinced that you know what you talking about and just found some big convicts.
BTW this is just a horrible thread to begin with so derailing can only help.

 

[WildCAught]

Ken, I agree. The more populated the area the smaller the fish seem to be from fishing. About five miles down hill is Rio Anamoros and larger cons are alot harder to find... but not impossible. We ate some 5 inchers from that river. The river is deeper and wider than the stream I usually collect from which may leave some little monsters hiding in the deeper areas.

Thanks Dominicolas. I think the fact that the area is secluded may allow these guys to grow larger.

 

[King Edward]

As 'Super'G has spent three threads trying to convince us his hybrids are pure line bred and the culmunation of an intensive 11yr breeding program and that he is selling them in his 'shop' for 30 dollars apeice (or is that just the special MFK price?) I say .

We ate some 5 inchers from that river.

You ate some convicts? How did they rate taste wise?