Not to derail, but I personally can't imagine spending this amount of money on a tank for a common RTC. If you're breaking the bank anyway, I'd go plat or golden.
Redtail Catfish Help Requested (Picking Your Redtail)
- Thread starter Mr. Ritter
- Start date
No offense, but where I am from, there is nothing common about the Redtailed Catfish. Honestly, I do not believe I have ever even seen a catfish in the wild with my own two eyes. And, yeah....I know it will be an expensive project for a fish, but like I said, this is no ordinary fish and it will not be treated as one. I want my Redtail to be as much a part of the family as a dog would be. To be true, this project is probably much cheaper than owning a poorly trained and horrendously mis-behaved cat or dog......cats and dogs urinate and crap on EVERYTHING...they scratch, claw, chew, nomm, smash anything they feel like. Carpets need to be replaced, new furniture bought, walling repaired.......no.......a catfish is much better. Redtails are equally intelligent (more so in my opinion, I have seen some pretty dumb dogs....and some good ones too, but the dumb ones stand out the most) to dogs, and have similar personalities and sizes.....the big difference.....A: Catfish live in the water, not on land.....B: When your fish is upset at you, it does not urinate on your brand new carpets, or smash a vase thats been in the family a few centuries.
Oh and about the platinum Redtails and golden (or albino yellow) Redtails, yeah I know what both are.....I am not a big fan of their colorization. Too bland....they are just missing...a lot.
Thanks for the comment, hope you enjoyed mine, have a great day Mount_Prion, sorry if I was a little rough on you....I don't mean to be.
just like a cat or dog, if its not fed well, cared for properly ( in dogs and cats trained..) you can end up with just as horrible a fish. from personal experiance fish are much harder and expensive then dogs or cats.. and our fish are almost as expensive as our horse. I have gar that splash us and makea horible mess, ive had seals pop on tanks and dump water everywhere.. fish jump out of their tanks or otherwise have crazy things happen. while i applaude your efforts on research.. reading your questions and responses in reguards to keeping fish. have you ever owned a fishtank? because even maintaining a smaller community tank isnt something you can just " research " and jump in. Your not talking about a commonly kept and easily maintained pet like a dog or cat.. you are talking about keeping one of the largest FW fish in the hobby. Im in no way saying you should not persue this but i would encourage you to try fishkeeping at a smaller level before jumping in, if you have not.
as far as i am aware all RTCs are bred for the food trade, and are sold in quantities to distributeors to make additional revenue. and i think you are refering to the hybrids being sterile.. many hybrids have low reproductive rates. and iir the cats are milked.. and like our fisheries the spawn is tended until the fry are large enough to go to ponds, where they are raised until such a size as to be food. hybrids where started from what i know to create a faster growing meatier fish for the food trade, not the ornimental pet trade. the resulting fish happened to be attractive...
Ive only owned my RTC and TSN a few weeks now, but ive been keeping fish for many years. I still have my reservations over the choice to bring a few 15$ fish home... lol. They are absolutely worth it, and imo not at the high end of delicacy... but understanding the nitrogen cycle, and filteration are much more important then how said fish will look.
We live with a show bred collie. who had some minor physical characteristics that made her undesirable as a show dog, but shes 100% reliable around the baby...
imo how the fish looks in the end will be least of your probems/concerns.
my 2cents.
as far as i am aware all RTCs are bred for the food trade, and are sold in quantities to distributeors to make additional revenue. and i think you are refering to the hybrids being sterile.. many hybrids have low reproductive rates. and iir the cats are milked.. and like our fisheries the spawn is tended until the fry are large enough to go to ponds, where they are raised until such a size as to be food. hybrids where started from what i know to create a faster growing meatier fish for the food trade, not the ornimental pet trade. the resulting fish happened to be attractive...
Ive only owned my RTC and TSN a few weeks now, but ive been keeping fish for many years. I still have my reservations over the choice to bring a few 15$ fish home... lol. They are absolutely worth it, and imo not at the high end of delicacy... but understanding the nitrogen cycle, and filteration are much more important then how said fish will look.
We live with a show bred collie. who had some minor physical characteristics that made her undesirable as a show dog, but shes 100% reliable around the baby...
imo how the fish looks in the end will be least of your probems/concerns.
my 2cents.
Yeah, you mentioned my experience with raising and dealing with fish....it is not that much. But this is why I am starting my research years in advance, to learn everything I need by the time in which I will be ready. Set a goal, study for it, be prepared and achieve it...am I wrong in following this style procedure? To my knowledge, Redtails are not even considered a food fish, as they have almost solid black meat and are rarely eaten. RTCxTSN's were created to fill that gap, because the result is an edible and fast growing fish with white meat. I know that these fish are more expensive and do need more care, but thanks to my former room mate.....I have a thing against dogs and cats, because the guy thought it was perfectly ok for his animals to urinate all over everything, he even slept in it! No problem in his opinion.....big problem in mine.
I quite honestly do wish to start learning to take care of fish and other fresh water species, and I believe a crayfish may be a great starting point.....but I do not know if they will give me the needed experience to stage up to the next level. The only thing that is saddening about starting these training programs is that the training fish will have to be given away eventually, or they will die of old age (if choosing short lived fish species). I really want my RTC to be special to the family, and it will receive the utmost care and attention possible.
If there are any tips you might add to understanding this nitrogen cycle and any other filtration and tank keeping pieces of advice you might wish to add, please do. I am still young and need to do as much research as possible, for I want my future pal to be as happy as physically possible. Thanks for everything MonsterMinis, and I hope to hear back from you soon
.
P.S.
How old is your RTC? Can I see a picture of it, and as it grows could you send me more. Sorry I just had to ask, I really want to get the right answer I seek from this question, as I really want to move on to more questions about the RTC in the future. Thanks (reply on this subject if you are interested).
I quite honestly do wish to start learning to take care of fish and other fresh water species, and I believe a crayfish may be a great starting point.....but I do not know if they will give me the needed experience to stage up to the next level. The only thing that is saddening about starting these training programs is that the training fish will have to be given away eventually, or they will die of old age (if choosing short lived fish species). I really want my RTC to be special to the family, and it will receive the utmost care and attention possible.
If there are any tips you might add to understanding this nitrogen cycle and any other filtration and tank keeping pieces of advice you might wish to add, please do. I am still young and need to do as much research as possible, for I want my future pal to be as happy as physically possible. Thanks for everything MonsterMinis, and I hope to hear back from you soon
.P.S.
How old is your RTC? Can I see a picture of it, and as it grows could you send me more. Sorry I just had to ask, I really want to get the right answer I seek from this question, as I really want to move on to more questions about the RTC in the future. Thanks (reply on this subject if you are interested).
Just my 2 cents too.
MonsterMinis brings about points that I find very agreeable and are obviously learned from experience - and I can see it because I learned most, by far and large most I know about the hobby from the experience.
No amount of theory will prepare you to handle a 9000 gal pond with an RTC in it. This is not an exact science, not mathematics or a paper science, you need to get into the "laboratories", so to speak, and start learning from doing. We all came from humble beginnings.
MR: Set a goal, study for it, be prepared and achieve it...am I wrong in following this style procedure?
TBTB: be prepared includes hands-on experience, IMO.
MR: To my knowledge, Redtails are not even considered a food fish, as they have almost solid black meat and are rarely eaten. RTCxTSN's were created to fill that gap, because the result is an edible and fast growing fish with white meat.
TBTB: That's one example. I've read this in many places too. BUT, I had to cut open a good dozen of adult and sub-adult RTCs and their meat was not black. So go figure what they are talking about. That's experience. I am not saying the reading material is wrong but your own experience gives you a chance to question or at least further your quest for knowledge.
MR: I know that these fish are more expensive and do need more care, but thanks to my former room mate.....I have a thing against dogs and cats, because the guy thought it was perfectly ok for his animals to urinate all over everything, he even slept in it! No problem in his opinion.....big problem in mine.
TBTB: horrifying, I agree.
MR: I quite honestly do wish to start learning to take care of fish and other fresh water species, and I believe a crayfish may be a great starting point.....but I do not know if they will give me the needed experience to stage up to the next level.
TBTB: IMO, there is no way around it. In analogy, you wanna learn to add 2 and 2 first (get a goldfish and try to raise it), etc. etc. then, eventually, you may be able to solve a differential equation (here comes in your super pond and super fish).
MR: The only thing that is saddening about starting these training programs is that the training fish will have to be given away eventually, or they will die of old age (if choosing short lived fish species). I really want my RTC to be special to the family, and it will receive the utmost care and attention possible.
TBTB: You are different. Appear an idealist, which is good but can work against you in many ways.
MR: If there are any tips you might add to understanding this nitrogen cycle and any other filtration and tank keeping pieces of advice you might wish to add, please do.
TBTB: I think you are asking for a humongous lecture but this is described to death everywhere. So you can read it all yourself but again, IMO, one must attend the "lab".
MonsterMinis brings about points that I find very agreeable and are obviously learned from experience - and I can see it because I learned most, by far and large most I know about the hobby from the experience.
No amount of theory will prepare you to handle a 9000 gal pond with an RTC in it. This is not an exact science, not mathematics or a paper science, you need to get into the "laboratories", so to speak, and start learning from doing. We all came from humble beginnings.
MR: Set a goal, study for it, be prepared and achieve it...am I wrong in following this style procedure?
TBTB: be prepared includes hands-on experience, IMO.
MR: To my knowledge, Redtails are not even considered a food fish, as they have almost solid black meat and are rarely eaten. RTCxTSN's were created to fill that gap, because the result is an edible and fast growing fish with white meat.
TBTB: That's one example. I've read this in many places too. BUT, I had to cut open a good dozen of adult and sub-adult RTCs and their meat was not black. So go figure what they are talking about. That's experience. I am not saying the reading material is wrong but your own experience gives you a chance to question or at least further your quest for knowledge.
MR: I know that these fish are more expensive and do need more care, but thanks to my former room mate.....I have a thing against dogs and cats, because the guy thought it was perfectly ok for his animals to urinate all over everything, he even slept in it! No problem in his opinion.....big problem in mine.
TBTB: horrifying, I agree.
MR: I quite honestly do wish to start learning to take care of fish and other fresh water species, and I believe a crayfish may be a great starting point.....but I do not know if they will give me the needed experience to stage up to the next level.
TBTB: IMO, there is no way around it. In analogy, you wanna learn to add 2 and 2 first (get a goldfish and try to raise it), etc. etc. then, eventually, you may be able to solve a differential equation (here comes in your super pond and super fish).
MR: The only thing that is saddening about starting these training programs is that the training fish will have to be given away eventually, or they will die of old age (if choosing short lived fish species). I really want my RTC to be special to the family, and it will receive the utmost care and attention possible.
TBTB: You are different. Appear an idealist, which is good but can work against you in many ways.
MR: If there are any tips you might add to understanding this nitrogen cycle and any other filtration and tank keeping pieces of advice you might wish to add, please do.
TBTB: I think you are asking for a humongous lecture but this is described to death everywhere. So you can read it all yourself but again, IMO, one must attend the "lab".
hi mate, At a very young age for RTC's i think it would be hard for you to distinguish traits in the face that you believe it would have in the future because from my experience and my friends, RTC's change DRASTICALLY! from the juvenile state to the adult stage. Firstly Patterns on the head would be more prominent, believe me its beautiful, next is the lenght of the face, when mine was young it had a very blunt face, very stubby but as time grew by the face began to grow more prominent and lenghty, leaving the mouth a few cm's further from the eyes when it was a juvie, my opinion is to just get the one that comes from the place with the best quality and also whatever clicks in your eyes. it just happens
.
Thanks RedTailCatfishDans, and everybody else who threw in some great comments as well. You just answered my questioned....for that is what I was looking for (if I could, I still might wish to see a picture of your RTC as it is now....if you are willing).
I also wish to thank MonsterMinis, thebiggerthebetter, Hansonc, 1bigdovii, follen, and everybody else who helped me with this little 'project' type question. I know that I ask strange things, and bother with subjects others would simply ignore, but I am so glad you guys followed me through anyways. I know I still have much to learn and achieve before I am ready to undergo this huge project, but I am glad that there are people out there who can help lead the way. I promise to, when the day comes, upload plenty of pics of the tank building process, the RTC and it's aging process to adulthood.
For now, I am gonna take your advice thebiggerthebetter, getting a goldfish and raising sounds like an excellent plan to approach, and should yield great training. Then I think I might add a crayfish or so into the tank to try raising the bar up a notch (learning to keep two different animals together and healthy that might naturally not get along at first). I will also studying this Nitrogen Cycle, and the effectiveness of filters and super-filters (for a 9000 gallon indoor and heated pond will need more than standard filters to keep crystal clear clean, lol).
Is there anything other than the Nitrogen Cycle, filter effectiveness, and tank heating systems that I should be studying for a massive pond? What about the Ph of tanks, I know this is freshwater, and I am assuming that Ph should not be too big a problem.....but I might be wrong in assuming so. Maybe I need to make a new topic discussion, because as more of my questions get answered....the farther my new questions tend to get from the original discussion.
I want to thank you all one last time, so thanks for the help, and thanks for reading.
Question: What did your RTC look like when you bought him/her (you did not say), and what does he/she now?
P.S. Sorry for the confusion.[/QUOTE]
Not a problem, he has changed looks throughout the time I've had him, at first it was a short stubby face and big bulgy eyes, but as time goes on he got proportional and then was a little long then wider and then longer and so fourth. It's all just like kids, their looks can change immensely as they grow, or they will look relatively the same with little changes besides aging lol... Hope ive helped!
Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
P.S. Sorry for the confusion.[/QUOTE]
Not a problem, he has changed looks throughout the time I've had him, at first it was a short stubby face and big bulgy eyes, but as time goes on he got proportional and then was a little long then wider and then longer and so fourth. It's all just like kids, their looks can change immensely as they grow, or they will look relatively the same with little changes besides aging lol... Hope ive helped!
Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
MR: I know that I ask strange things, and bother with subjects others would simply ignore, but I am so glad you guys followed me through anyways.
TBTB: You do ask unusual questions which however keeps things interesting. It is a pleasure to deal with you too as you are considerate, respectful, responsive, smart, and a good writer-communicator. I also liked your reply about the golden/platinum RTCs.
MR: Is there anything other than the Nitrogen Cycle, filter effectiveness, and tank heating systems that I should be studying for a massive pond?
TBTB: In essence, there is no difference between a small tank and a large pond. All the principles are exactly the same. Things just scale up. Nitrogen cycle is very important to understand and one would be prudent to start testing their tank water from the get-go (BEFORE putting any fish in their tank). Tank needs to cycle, best is fishless cycling - one can either use fish food (e.g., pellets) which will rot and simulate fish waste or add ammonia. Cycling can be sped up 2 times, from 6 weeks to 3 weeks when seeded with the beneficial bacteria. Bacteria must be well fed, as mentioned either with fish food or with ammonia.
I'd recommend getting an API liquid Master test kit ($24 from Petsoltuions.com) testing for NH3, NO2, NO3, and pH. Temperature is a must of course.
When you know and understand the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in your tank and what affects them (food increases them, beneficial bacteria colonies and water changes decrease them), you can introduce your first fish in there, understanding that the fish needs to be acclimated (adding your tank water to the fish's container little by little until it is mostly your tank water).
If you want to read about pond construction, I have a compilation of links you can find here in one of my threads: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33968&hilit=+blues
Another knee-jerk reaction: it may be better for you to consider living in tropical or sub-tropical climate on a well water when you are ready for your dream. Heating 9000 gal can break almost any bank, unless you are made of money. Otherwise, very serious attention will have to be paid to insulation. It can be done. Ted from Seattle (see my compilation) has a tropical 1800, 4000, and 8000 gal pond OUTSIDE but I am sure it is a great pain in the neck to keep it warm enough still.
MR: What about the Ph of tanks, I know this is freshwater, and I am assuming that Ph should not be too big a problem.....but I might be wrong in assuming so.
TBTB: I am of the mindset (there are those opposing!) that the vast majority of fish sold in the US are adaptable enough to be adequately housed at any pH within 6 to 8.
TBTB: You do ask unusual questions which however keeps things interesting. It is a pleasure to deal with you too as you are considerate, respectful, responsive, smart, and a good writer-communicator. I also liked your reply about the golden/platinum RTCs.
MR: Is there anything other than the Nitrogen Cycle, filter effectiveness, and tank heating systems that I should be studying for a massive pond?
TBTB: In essence, there is no difference between a small tank and a large pond. All the principles are exactly the same. Things just scale up. Nitrogen cycle is very important to understand and one would be prudent to start testing their tank water from the get-go (BEFORE putting any fish in their tank). Tank needs to cycle, best is fishless cycling - one can either use fish food (e.g., pellets) which will rot and simulate fish waste or add ammonia. Cycling can be sped up 2 times, from 6 weeks to 3 weeks when seeded with the beneficial bacteria. Bacteria must be well fed, as mentioned either with fish food or with ammonia.
I'd recommend getting an API liquid Master test kit ($24 from Petsoltuions.com) testing for NH3, NO2, NO3, and pH. Temperature is a must of course.
When you know and understand the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in your tank and what affects them (food increases them, beneficial bacteria colonies and water changes decrease them), you can introduce your first fish in there, understanding that the fish needs to be acclimated (adding your tank water to the fish's container little by little until it is mostly your tank water).
If you want to read about pond construction, I have a compilation of links you can find here in one of my threads: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33968&hilit=+blues
Another knee-jerk reaction: it may be better for you to consider living in tropical or sub-tropical climate on a well water when you are ready for your dream. Heating 9000 gal can break almost any bank, unless you are made of money. Otherwise, very serious attention will have to be paid to insulation. It can be done. Ted from Seattle (see my compilation) has a tropical 1800, 4000, and 8000 gal pond OUTSIDE but I am sure it is a great pain in the neck to keep it warm enough still.
MR: What about the Ph of tanks, I know this is freshwater, and I am assuming that Ph should not be too big a problem.....but I might be wrong in assuming so.
TBTB: I am of the mindset (there are those opposing!) that the vast majority of fish sold in the US are adaptable enough to be adequately housed at any pH within 6 to 8.
