Redtail Catfish Help Requested (Picking Your Redtail)

[thebiggerthebetter]

MR: Thanks thebiggerthebetter, that really helps clear things up. How fascinating.....I figured this would require an incredibly large number of filters. So if I were to increase the bio-load to say, 300 lbs....the water would need more filters.
TBTB: The filter would have to be precisely (to keep the logic clear) 6x bigger versus the 50 lbs example. Fish produce waste = feces+urine primarily, not tanks, not air, not anything else (normally). Waste must be broken down by bacteria in a timely fashion and removed with water changes after that so that your tests read zero for NH3, zero for NO2, and only a little bit of NO3. That's all in simple terms.

MR: ... I plan to hand feed my catfish, and that would definitely increase bio-load because I would want to be in the water with the fish to do so.
TBTB: That reads real funny... ??? Your fish eating food and processing it produces waste = bio-load. Whether you throw the food in there or hand-feed or wade/dive in the pond has no bearing whatsoever on the bio-load... unless you plan on depositing your waste in there too , which I don't think you do being, hopefully, a sane person...

MR: I already checked this out before I got on MonsterfishKeepers, turns out that RTC's can handle being around people without getting diseases or damaging health so long as anyone in the water is well cleaned with no deodorants, perfumes, soaps residues, or any other chemicals remaining on their bodies. This is very important.....and means that anyone visiting the fish MUST clean vigorously before entering the water.
TBTB: An excellent example of the right research. Still, I'd not pet it and I'd not enter the water. You can do it 100 times fine and on 101st, you can make a mistake. Also, an adult RTC fish can, in principle, injure or kill you.

MR: There is one thing I did not quite understand out of your comment....you mentioned quite a few uses of 'Nylon-Mesh Pot Scrubbies', it almost seems as if they are a unit of filtration....but I found little to no reference online for such a term being used to describe filtration.....maybe I was looking it up wrong. I was hoping you could help clear that up for me, thanks.
TBTB: MonsterMinis has put it, again, quite well. It can be thought of as a "unit" of cheap, effective, and convenient DIY bio-filter media. You need large area to be populated by the good bacteria. Area is measured in sq in, sq feet, sq yards, etc.

I have not read too many people using nylon mesh pot scrubbie as a unit of area in their bio-filters. I just grabbed it as a convenient example off the top of my head and something I have used myself.

 

[Mr. Ritter]

TBTB: That reads real funny... ??? Your fish eating food and processing it produces waste = bio-load. Whether you throw the food in there or hand-feed or wade/dive in the pond has no bearing whatsoever on the bio-load... unless you plan on depositing your waste in there too , which I don't think you do being, hopefully, a sane person...

Lol, ok thebiggerthebetter . I figured that the bio-load counted for all life that was in the water, not the waste that was being released . Though technically everything, even humans are constantly releasing waste. For us, our skin, which constantly dies off (and falls off) while replenishing itself by the creation of new skin. We also exhale CO2 as a form of waste, and our hairs die and fall out as well (similar to skin)........but that is besides the point. I understood what you meant .

TBTB: An excellent example of the right research. Still, I'd not pet it and I'd not enter the water. You can do it 100 times fine and on 101st, you can make a mistake. Also, an adult RTC fish can, in principle, injure or kill you.

Yeah, I have read plenty about the Redtail Catfish and it's primary defensive armament......the large spike on the dorsal fin. I do know that as RTC's age, their spikes become larger and more deadly. I have heard that they could very easily harm or kill a person....I have never heard of a poison used in them ever though......so I think I see a solution. Many people say that you should not pet your fish, especially Catfish....but I have also met many people who do pet their fish (while at a young age), and they were just fine. Now I do not wish to challenge fate.....I merely desire to beat it.

The spikes are strong and dangerous....but from what I see, they are of no-importance to the fish.....and seeing as their are so few of them on the fish.....i see no reason why they need to stay. I am curious to whether they can be clipped and sanded down, much like a cat's claws, so that they are no longer a problem. I did notice that the defensive spine is always the very first spine blade on the dorsal fin.....which would probably cause the fish problems if it were completely removed from the base of the fish's fin. Thats why I feel a small clipping at the most necessary spot on the spike should be performed.....makes the fish safe to be around....even if it does not want you around.

Redtail Catfish are well known for being non-aggressive towards people though, and even more...they are known for their intellect. Redtail Catfish are incredibly smart fish, they can learn, identify people, learn who their owner and care taker is, learn to enjoy being around people, learn when their feeding time is, and much more. Redtail Catfish are incredibly intelligent, and they are very special fish. They are pretty much dogs in freshwater, that's why they are so great. But thanks for the warning thebiggerthebetter, I know what I am getting into when purchasing a Redtail Catfish......I just want to get ready for the housing and feeding.....raising and training.

Thanks also for confirmation on the 'Nylon Mesh Pot Scrubbies' thebiggerthebetter . Also I keep hearing about this good bacteria, a filter is designed to rid the water of filth and bacteria.....what is a good bacteria. You say that these good bacteria help filters in decomposing and eliminating waste......are they in anyway harmful to the RTC? And might they cause a 'change' in water 'color' because of their presence?

Thanks for the help thebiggerthebetter, MonsterMinis, and everybody else .

PS:I know that even though RTC's have the traits I am looking for in fish, they also pose many complications to owning and raising them.....because of this I have been suggested to get a Pacu instead......I know they are almost similar in traits (intelligence and feeding wise)......but I am not into Pacu's.....I just don't feel that desire for a Pacu the way I do for the RTC. I know there will be complications, and that the road ahead will definitely have some bumps....but with the right help, training and determination, this idea can become a reality....and that is the path that has just begun. Thanks for reading my messages and helping me everybody. I know that in the end, this will be a tank like no other, and that the fish housed here will be just as special .

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

A lot of your questions stem from your need to understand how a tank functions and the Nitrogen Cycle. IMO, you need to start reading earnestly that stuff and start your own tank, however small and with whatever fish.

MR: I figured that the bio-load counted for all life that was in the water, not the waste that was being released .
TBTB: Ok, the most basic facts: water is spoiled by waste=bio-load=feces+urine=substances which decompose and produce chemical toxins, among which we only are concerned with ammonia or NH3 . The normal source of waste is fish, which also excrete ammonia though gill function. Dead plant/algae life, old detritus accumulations, etc. can be a source too but not in a non-planted and well-maintained tank.

MR: Though technically everything, even humans are constantly releasing waste. For us, our skin, which constantly dies off (and falls off) while replenishing itself by the creation of new skin. We also exhale CO2 as a form of waste, and our hairs die and fall out as well (similar to skin)........but that is besides the point. I understood what you meant .
TBTB: Right... but qualitative arguments will mislead you if you lack quantitative understanding. All the dead skin cells and fallen-out hair and skin perspiration etc. of a single human collected in one week produces less toxins than 1 milliliter of urine or 1 gram of poop. So, all of that is utterly irrelevant to the matter at hand = bio-load.

MR: Yeah, I have read plenty about the Redtail Catfish and it's primary defensive armament......the large spike on the dorsal fin. I do know that as RTC's age, their spikes become larger and more deadly. I have heard that they could very easily harm or kill a person....
TBTB: The pectorial fins have the same spikes and these are of primary concern when a 4' RTC decides to start thrashing around you in the water. The spikes will be ~10" long. It is not unlike Steven Irwin died.

MR: I have never heard of a poison used in them ever though......
TBTB: There is no poison on them.

MR: so I think I see a solution. Many people say that you should not pet your fish, especially Catfish....but I have also met many people who do pet their fish (while at a young age), and they were just fine.
TBTB: Right again. Pick your poison.

MR: Now I do not wish to challenge fate.....I merely desire to beat it.
TBTB: Think about it... potato-potahto...

MR: The spikes are strong and dangerous....but from what I see, they are of no-importance to the fish.....and seeing as their are so few of them on the fish.....i see no reason why they need to stay. I am curious to whether they can be clipped and sanded down, much like a cat's claws, so that they are no longer a problem. I did notice that the defensive spine is always the very first spine blade on the dorsal fin.....which would probably cause the fish problems if it were completely removed from the base of the fish's fin. Thats why I feel a small clipping at the most necessary spot on the spike should be performed.....makes the fish safe to be around....even if it does not want you around.
TBTB: Good logical thinking but you make a big mistake thinking you understand fish's biology, fin spike function, slime function, stress, etc. Not to mention that there is a major blood vessel running inside the hollow spike... I don't understand all of that either so I prefer to err on the safe side and NOT TOUCH the fish. You will be doing your "potato-potahto" thing, IMO... While felines are well-known and studied and the effects of messing up their claws are rather well known, with an RTC you will be entering into an unknown... hence gambling with your pet's health and life so that you can have a pleasure. It sounds wrong, selfish.

MR: ... Also I keep hearing about this good bacteria, a filter is designed to rid the water of filth and bacteria.....what is a good bacteria. You say that these good bacteria help filters in decomposing and eliminating waste......are they in anyway harmful to the RTC? And might they cause a 'change' in water 'color' because of their presence?
TBTB: See above. You lack the most basic of understanding how a bio-filter functions. The filter ONLY provides a large surface area on which the good nitrifying bacteria colonies live. They live on surfaces. The more surface, the more bacteria. These bacteria feed on ammonia and convert it into/spew out nitrite (another 10 times stronger toxin) and the other type of the good bacteria feed on nitrite and spew out nitrate (a 1000 times less of a toxin). Bio-filter does not clean the water of bacteria (ozone or UV filters do). There is no need to normally.

You need to understand what biological filtration, chemical filtration (a waste of time, filter space and money IMO but not that all agree), and mechanical filtration do.

Also, please don't make a mistake you know what you are getting into. You can read and memorize 100 books but if you never got your hands wet and have never battled a fish disease or lost a fish, you don't know 1% of it. Again and again, we tell you that fish-keeping is an APPLIED art/science/hobby/etc. not a theoretical one. It's not done on paper. It's done in water and yes, often filth too. Even tank's smell is often diagnostic of what goes on in your tank...

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

And please don't think you know RTCs - my prediction, based on experience and knowledge, is that chances are 100 to 1 that you will lose at least several RTCs before you able to achieve your goal. Not because you are bad, not at all, but just talking about typical chances. This is not counting all other fish that will get ill and die in your care. That's where you will learn the most you need. Not from paper.

 

[Mr. Ritter]

with an RTC you will be entering into an unknown... hence gambling with your pet's health and life so that you can have a pleasure. It sounds wrong, selfish.

Also, please don't make a mistake you know what you are getting into. You can read and memorize 100 books but if you never got your hands wet and have never battled a fish disease or lost a fish, you don't know 1% of it. Again and again, we tell you that fish-keeping is an APPLIED art/science/hobby/etc. not a theoretical one. It's not done on paper. It's done in water and yes, often filth too. Even tank's smell is often diagnostic of what goes on in your tank...

thebiggerthebetter, I am terribly sorry for my impending stupidity......
Honestly I really want to be able to take your advice and start learning by hand instead of theory, but I am rather afraid to. You see....the reality is that I am still just a college student, barely old enough to even be an adult. I plan ahead.....far ahead, that's why theoretical assistance has such a pull on me for this goal. I have no job yet, I don't even have a car to myself yet......but I must plan ahead.....I must know what I am going to do in the future, I want to plan for an amazing family one day.....I want kids a few years after I graduate, I want to get married...I want a job, and I want a house. I still am so young....but it does not always feel that way. I am sorry for being an idiot at times, and I personally am sorry to bother you (I do feel my lack of intellect and experience in the field does annoy you).....I do not wish to be a burden.

Also.....about the defensive spikes.....I did not necessarily wish them removed for my own sake, but in preparation for one day if I did have children. Once kids are old enough to both not be in danger of an RTC's mouth, and to be able to respect the catfish, treat it well the way it deserves to be treated, I honestly thought that being around the fish would be an amazing experience for them. The only problem is those spikes.....they are dangerous, and would not let anyone near them while they were still there....especially not my own children. Maybe one day I can find a solution to this enigma that both satisfies the safety protocol and causes the fish no harm. I also never meant that I would be doing things myself.....I would have to hunt down as many experts and veterinarians who work and know catfish biology and health....how to perform such procedures.

It is a true shame that so little is actually known about the Redtail Catfish....there is so much I wish to know about them, and so many unanswered questions that still linger in my heart. Only more study and time might reveal these....that or getting an RTC in the future (when I am ready).

You said that even with the acquired knowledge that I will need before even getting an RTC completed, that I will still probably lose a few Redtail Catfish. This is rather unfortunate.....but with your vast experience, you are correct I am sure. May time and experience bring me all the knowledge I need......thank you thebiggerthebetter.......

Sorry that I am so......inexperienced in both fish keeping and in life. I hope that my foolishness does not bother you too much.
I honestly do thank you for your advice, everything you have said has been valuable.....its just that I do lack so MUCH in this field of knowledge. Have a great day thebiggerthebetter.

Mr. Ritter

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

I think it is me who should be apologizing for not being considerate enough in my words. I am sorry. You know, long posts take a lot of time to type and think through and I have no time to read them over and over again as if through your eyes or another's eyes, so you will have to just forgive me. I am not annoyed at all, I too just try my best to answer your questions. My answers often come off awkwardly and leave much to be desired for in terms of clarity, logic, and tone. If we spoke face to face it'd be no problem as you'd see things you don't see in a written exchange.

Anyhow, you are not way off the right path IMO. I just wanted to warn you of being too-theory-oriented and over-confident. I'd continue reading and first and foremost on the Nitrogen Cycle, as MonsterMinis suggested. One can put together a small tank for $10 or $5 or nothing at all. One can get experience at a LFS or a pond shop, as an employee or a volunteer. Or, of course, one can put the practice off until they are able to start practicing.

Sorry about talking so much about the obvious.

 

[Mr. Ritter]

You do not have to apologize at all thebiggerthebetter, your comments are definitely realistic. Sorry that it has taken me so long to reply back. Glad to hear that I do not bother you. I do thank you for the advice you have given me, no doubt about that. Really you can get a tank up and running for that cheap.....how fascinating.

My uncle runs a fish and exotic pets shop, and I have been wanting to work there for a while.....but he moved his store....and has not found a suitable relocation building yet (don't ask.....I don't understand half the motives to do the things he does.....he just does stuff because he feels like it). Well anyway....the store is mostly online now, and I am waiting for him to start up the ground business again once he finds a suitable building.

I promise to keep researching the filter and Nitrogen Cycle, eventually it will all make sense. Thanks for the advice, and I wish you all luck with your next endeavors.

Mr. Ritter

 

[ecoli73]

I'm sorry but I find this thread a bit...odd...

RTC is a tough fish; and in a sense easier than a majority of fish provided that proper space is given.

That said, people who don't know the nitrogen cycle don't need to be raising any fish So read that first.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

It is unusual Ecoli73! I agree

Really you can get a tank up and running for that cheap.....how fascinating.

Type "betta bowl" in Google image search. Or you could have a few rosy reds (10-cent feeders that would require no heating) in there.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

It is unusual Ecoli73! I agree

Really you can get a tank up and running for that cheap.....how fascinating.

Type "betta bowl" in Google image search. Or you could have a few rosy reds (10-cent feeders that would require no heating) in there.