Releasing native aquarium fish

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The Maryland DNR is still studying the effects of the Snakehead infestation, so far they have found a decline in topminnows and small centrarchids in waters infested with snakeheads and are currently studying the effects on other fishes including the sportfishing types like Bass.
To be fair, the centrarchids are not even native to the Potomac River and the topminnow populations in Potomac River are not even in danger from being threatened. They found no evidence that snakeheads pose a threat to the bass populations but hey guess what! The largemouth bass are NOT even native to Potomac River either. The people are not concerned about the ecosystem of Potomac River, they are just concerning about their precious fishery with their stocked non-native gamefish and to be fair, they don't even want native "trashfish" in their favorite lakes/rivers.

There are new studies on the snakehead and its effects on the sportfish populations and so far they found that snakeheads pose no threat to the sportfish populations.
 
O.p. you def. Stuck ur foot in ur mouth with this whole topic. It is not only illegal but just plain stupid. Its people like you that ruin the hobby for the rest of us. If your going to let ur fish go in a week dont bring them home in the first place, simple as that. There is no debate.

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the USA is already plagued by invasive fish, snakes, reptiles, etc. I don't care if you think its alright, its ILLEGAL. How hard is it to not take fish that you aren't going to keep, there is no point in this topic. If you don't have education or permits to release animals into the wild, then don't do it.
 
O.p. you def. Stuck ur foot in ur mouth with this whole topic. It is not only illegal but just plain stupid. Its people like you that ruin the hobby for the rest of us. If your going to let ur fish go in a week dont bring them home in the first place, simple as that. There is no debate.

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Don't you DARE say that people "like me" are ruining the hobby. I specifically stated I WOULD NEVER DO THIS. It's really people like you who are ruining this site for the rest of us.


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The big question is that what the damages did the northern snakehead caused? I do not see any proof that they did cause the damages to the ecosystems. Funny thing is that before the discovery of Crofton Pond snakeheads, we have snakeheads in the waters already for many years but nobody say anything about it.

Hence, when the East Asian market owners decided it was prudent to go into extreme mass hatchery mode to enable them to increase the supply and match the demand, they asked for "permission" instead of the small scale stealth "stockings". That is what "tipped off" the officials to the Northern Snakehead in Maryland waters.

East Asian markets that sold live fish in their market including Northern Snakehead in the Maryland and D.C. area were certainly not limited to the "Crofton Area" only. They are still very common throughout D.C. and surrounding Prince Georges County, MD.

Please don't tell me that you fell for the manure story that it was irresponsible tropical fish keepers that threw a handful of pet Snakeheads into a Crofton pond and the Frankenfish were able to walk 17 miles to establish a major viable population of Snakeheads (easily numbering in the 10's of thousands now) in the Potomac River? I guess I have to give these frankenfish credit where it is due. The were smart enough forgo a much shorter 5 mile journey to establish themselves in the breathtakingly beautiful "scenic Severn River".

This river has extreme wealth living along it. Not many East Asian markets and the Scenic Severn would provide accessible harvest areas due to the Human population inhabiting the land around the tributary.

There was NOT 10's of thousands of Snakehead in the Potomac before the "tip-off" on the Crofton pond. There is no way that a 20 year period is going to show any damage to the ecosystem without being undeniably critically invasive species.

We are 10 to 20 years away from even attempting to responsibly answer the question of "what damage have the Snakeheads caused".

You coming off as the type that will deny that water is rising until you have drown! If twenty years from now, no other species exists in the Potomac, you would still no doubt not give an inch and still claim that it had nothing to do with the poor ole Northern Snakehead!

I will however give you an acknowledgement that in the short duration of years that we can count on our fingers and toes, there is no indisputable factual proof the the Snakehead is "damaging" the ecosystem in the Potomac. As much as I despise the authorities for lying like a wet rug to the public involving the Nothern Snakehead, I can easily understand their concern.

Some of us are not myopic enough to enjoy a comfort level with this introduced species (Notice I did not use the term "invasive" at this point!) prolifically breeding in the Potomac.

Lets go over some "traits" of the Northern Snakehead that puts it in an advantageous to either the native fish population, or the previously introduced fish populations currently in the Potomac.

1. Parental care for the fry. (The Snakehead seems to have a far greater sense of responsibility as a species for protecting and raising the newly hatched Snakeheads than any of the other "predatory fish" inhabiting the Potomac.) The adult Snakehead parents are both willing to fight to the death to protect their fry from potential prey, and easily capable of successfully defending their fry from any other predator in the Potomac.
2. Duration of fry protection. (The Snakehead definitely remains in diligent protection mode of their fry far longer than any other predator fish in the water.) They are as a rule raised to a large enough size that this these tough juveniles can defend themselves against the majority of the predatory fish in the body of water. Their fry to adult ratio is most likely light years beyond that of the other predatory fish in the Potomac. It will be telltale in 50 - 100 years or will be PROVEN insignificant at that time.
3. Cannibalism - The Snakehead is most likely the predatory species in the Potomac with the lowest incident rate of cannibalism within it's species inhabiting the Potomac. They are therefore the least likely predatory species to "manage" overpopulation within their species. This is possibly the biggest advantage that they have. Not only don't they have to win any form of species war against any of the predatory fish species in the Potomac, they can simply consume masses of safe bream and allow the other predatory fish species to co-specific aggressively further reduce their population. This could be a vicious cycle that continues building upon itself until the damage is irreversible.
4. Human intervention - The "kill" a snakehead" movement for recreational fishermen in the MD. and D.C. area is a joke. (I think we both agree!) With the genius authorites in my area, that have banned the sale of the Northern Snakehead as food have completely removed the entire "commercial fishing fleet" from human impact on the species. We recreational fishermen will be removing a few hundred snakeheads from the water, and in the mean time, the commercial fishing fleets will be measuring the catch of the other "alpha" predatory species (Striped Bass) literally by the TON! Holey F' if you can't see this as THE downfall. At least they should feed the poor with Snakehead if they cannot build a major market for the meat of the Snakehead. The Commercial fishing fleet no doubt will easily be able to do 10x the impact on the snakehead population than can we!
 
It is just like the global warming deal. All a joke. People here are worried about the silver and bighead carps. Any rivers or lakes that are "totally lost to invasive species" just toss in some wells cats and have a sport fish that will "clean up" the system.

Op you said on the first page you wouldn't release a fish back. Then you said you are reconsidering before that page was done. Then you get all defensive when your called out on it saying you said you'd never do it. The whole reason you started this thread was to justify your wanting to release your fish to get some new fish. You can't hide that fact it is clear as day. When people supported your idea you were all over it. In captive fish just like with humans there are carriers and infected. You can have a carrier that has and can transmit an illness but shows no signs of it. It is more complex then "my fish looks fine and has so it is good."

As to the trout in the classroom most of those fish will survive. You get the fry from a tested source approved by the DNR. Then when they are to be stocked into lakes it is all under permits and they go into DNR approved lakes. The same thing happens with any stocking. To get the permit to stock you have to have a percent of you fish tested and they have to be clear of illness. Same for food fish.

All fish to be stocked must be tested and permitted. The only exception is on your private ponds. Most cases when you stock your privet pond to get the fish alive they have to be transported under a permit from the DNR. Very very few exceptions. Any hatcheries you get them from have been tested. Any fish store with natives get them from places that have either been tested or got them from tested places. There is a paper trail behind all native fish in any stores live or dead.

I have been talking with the DNR about aquaculture for the pet trade and to help stock some critical native fish.

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Hence, when the East Asian market owners decided it was prudent to go into extreme mass hatchery mode to enable them to increase the supply and match the demand, they asked for "permission" instead of the small scale stealth "stockings". That is what "tipped off" the officials to the Northern Snakehead in Maryland waters.

East Asian markets that sold live fish in their market including Northern Snakehead in the Maryland and D.C. area were certainly not limited to the "Crofton Area" only. They are still very common throughout D.C. and surrounding Prince Georges County, MD.

Please don't tell me that you fell for the manure story that it was irresponsible tropical fish keepers that threw a handful of pet Snakeheads into a Crofton pond and the Frankenfish were able to walk 17 miles to establish a major viable population of Snakeheads (easily numbering in the 10's of thousands now) in the Potomac River? I guess I have to give these frankenfish credit where it is due. The were smart enough forgo a much shorter 5 mile journey to establish themselves in the breathtakingly beautiful "scenic Severn River".

This river has extreme wealth living along it. Not many East Asian markets and the Scenic Severn would provide accessible harvest areas due to the Human population inhabiting the land around the tributary.

There was NOT 10's of thousands of Snakehead in the Potomac before the "tip-off" on the Crofton pond. There is no way that a 20 year period is going to show any damage to the ecosystem without being undeniably critically invasive species.

We are 10 to 20 years away from even attempting to responsibly answer the question of "what damage have the Snakeheads caused".

You coming off as the type that will deny that water is rising until you have drown! If twenty years from now, no other species exists in the Potomac, you would still no doubt not give an inch and still claim that it had nothing to do with the poor ole Northern Snakehead!

I will however give you an acknowledgement that in the short duration of years that we can count on our fingers and toes, there is no indisputable factual proof the the Snakehead is "damaging" the ecosystem in the Potomac. As much as I despise the authorities for lying like a wet rug to the public involving the Nothern Snakehead, I can easily understand their concern.

Some of us are not myopic enough to enjoy a comfort level with this introduced species (Notice I did not use the term "invasive" at this point!) prolifically breeding in the Potomac.

Lets go over some "traits" of the Northern Snakehead that puts it in an advantageous to either the native fish population, or the previously introduced fish populations currently in the Potomac.

1. Parental care for the fry. (The Snakehead seems to have a far greater sense of responsibility as a species for protecting and raising the newly hatched Snakeheads than any of the other "predatory fish" inhabiting the Potomac.) The adult Snakehead parents are both willing to fight to the death to protect their fry from potential prey, and easily capable of successfully defending their fry from any other predator in the Potomac.
2. Duration of fry protection. (The Snakehead definitely remains in diligent protection mode of their fry far longer than any other predator fish in the water.) They are as a rule raised to a large enough size that this these tough juveniles can defend themselves against the majority of the predatory fish in the body of water. Their fry to adult ratio is most likely light years beyond that of the other predatory fish in the Potomac. It will be telltale in 50 - 100 years or will be PROVEN insignificant at that time.
3. Cannibalism - The Snakehead is most likely the predatory species in the Potomac with the lowest incident rate of cannibalism within it's species inhabiting the Potomac. They are therefore the least likely predatory species to "manage" overpopulation within their species. This is possibly the biggest advantage that they have. Not only don't they have to win any form of species war against any of the predatory fish species in the Potomac, they can simply consume masses of safe bream and allow the other predatory fish species to co-specific aggressively further reduce their population. This could be a vicious cycle that continues building upon itself until the damage is irreversible.
4. Human intervention - The "kill" a snakehead" movement for recreational fishermen in the MD. and D.C. area is a joke. (I think we both agree!) With the genius authorites in my area, that have banned the sale of the Northern Snakehead as food have completely removed the entire "commercial fishing fleet" from human impact on the species. We recreational fishermen will be removing a few hundred snakeheads from the water, and in the mean time, the commercial fishing fleets will be measuring the catch of the other "alpha" predatory species (Striped Bass) literally by the TON! Holey F' if you can't see this as THE downfall. At least they should feed the poor with Snakehead if they cannot build a major market for the meat of the Snakehead. The Commercial fishing fleet no doubt will easily be able to do 10x the impact on the snakehead population than can we!
You know that we have snakeheads already in United States for more than 30 years.

There is strong evidence of "native" predatory fishes that do feeding on YOY snakeheads despite of the parents' protection and the adult snakehead are highly cannibalism towards to the smaller snakeheads as the studies have revealed. The snakehead has been in Florida for more than 30 years and the snakehead in Hawaii for over 100 years yet the native fauna and the bass/bluegill are still here.

So far there are no studies that suggested the snakeheads caused damages while there are studies of non-native carps and catfish caused the damages in Potomac River.
 
I suggest people keep it civil, so the debate can go on without further hassle.
 
You know that we have snakeheads already in United States for more than 30 years.

There is strong evidence of "native" predatory fishes that do feeding on YOY snakeheads despite of the parents' protection and the adult snakehead are highly cannibalism towards to the smaller snakeheads as the studies have revealed. The snakehead has been in Florida for more than 30 years and the snakehead in Hawaii for over 100 years yet the native fauna and the bass/bluegill are still here.

So far there are no studies that suggested the snakeheads caused damages while there are studies of non-native carps and catfish caused the damages in Potomac River.

Well like I said I have no doubt you can not be swayed.

This extreme detailed Snakehead hatchery fact sheet on harvest statistics will therefore be of little interest to you.

Anyone else want to actually learn the FACTS about raising Snakehead for food consumption, read on. Their phenomenal legendary cultural tolerance and 80 FREAKIN' percent survival rate under culture after three months is flat out what makes them one of the most easily farm harvested fish meat in the world. As far as some 30 year mark that you are "focused" on, this fact sheet is 1985 and refering to studies done from all hatcheries in Thailand from 1970's to 1985!

I am going to go even further to "counter" your claim of the snakehead being highly cannibalistic, and point out that is the Channa genis that the survival rate for fry are far greater for cultured snakehead than non-cultured. They breed much quicker in large groups and have a higher survival rate when raised in large groups.

I guess next you are going to try to tell us how cannibalistic the Tillapia are!

Are you even using the same definition of the word "cannibalistic" to mean: a species naturally consuming other members of its species for survival under normal circumstances?

My feeling is that you are erroneously equating co-specific aggression to cannibalism.



http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/AC238E/AC238E00.htm
 
They have found YOY snakeheads in the adult snakehead's stomachs so they are not immune to the cannibalism. Northern and Bullseye snakeheads are known for being cannibalistic towards to smaller snakeheads and that is a fact.

So tell me, why didn't the snakeheads wipe out the native fauna in Florida and Hawaii? Is the largemouth bass already extinct or becoming uncommon? Are there any species that is being threatened by the non-native snakehead. Do most people actually cared about the ecosystems than the fishery? Are they trying to saving the native non-game fishes from the snakehead invasion? Do they start to set up the protection for our native bowfin from being threatened by the snakeheads? Are there any plans to restore the ecosystem back to the real ecosystem with only natives in? Can the snakehead take over of the whole water system and wiped out other fish species?

To be honest, snakeheads being harmful exotic species is a joke if everyone is all about the fishery and not ecosystems. Here, everyone is killing native trashfish (eelpout, native lampreys, drums, suckers, buffaloes, gars and bowfin) and they don't care if the trashfish are native. They are killing them so they can makes more room for their favorite gamefish and less competition. You know that the snakeheads have been in United States for more than 30 years but no one panicked and freaked out or do something with the snakeheads till a pair of snakehead show up in Crofton Pond 10 years ago. It's all media hype.
 
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