Right or wrong

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Keister said:
Sorry for the double post but the question then this question must be raised: what about the harder to find rays? Like let's say hystrix spot is the only person I know of actively breeding hystrix so to try to buy from two separate sources may simply be impossible unless you wait in hopes that someone sells one of their own that they have just had. Then it has to be taken into account that you aren't the only person out there who is going to want this single ray and that's if it is even the correct sex. The akc is far larger then the ray hobby so there are far more breeders which allows for this gene mixing. Just something to think about further. Some of the rays just aren't available from more then one person which sucks but I mean is is what it is I guess...


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The AKA also show big concerns with breeds that have a very limited gene pool but still don't allow inter breeding as they know the long term effects of this kind of breeding
In the UK we have the KC (kennel club) They done a DNA test on one of the rarer breeds and they tested 4 pups from two different breeders at different ends of the country and they confirmed they was all related in some way and all had the same heart condition

My opinion is we may not see any big effects now but long term this may make problem



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T1KARMANN said:
The AKA also show big concerns with breeds that have a very limited gene pool but still don't allow inter breeding as they know the long term effects of this kind of breeding
In the UK we have the KC (kennel club) They done a DNA test on one of the rarer breeds and they tested 4 pups from two different breeders at different ends of the country and they confirmed they was all related in some way and all had the same heart condition

My opinion is we may not see any big effects now but long term this may make problem



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Yes long term we could run into problems with pure rays but I think with this hybrid craze right now people are mixing any and every ray and I think that should help prevent these ill effects of inbreeding?


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DIDYSIS said:
Agree that the rare stuff or more uncommon is not available in large numbers. Albino pearls? Boesemani? I don't think anyone would care if they were brother or sister, Question is If you (T1 or anyone else) were given a good chance to buy some or say your dream ray would them being brother and sister really stop you from doing so? I know it would not stop me at all.






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The more rare stuff like bosemani are not being captive bred so chances are they are wild caught so not much chance of them being brother and sister
Also albino they are 1 in 100000 so they probably won't be related unless one breeder is breeding the all day long

But I see your point the rare stuff you may have no choice but do we want to be breeding rays with a gene pool of a hand full of rays or is this when its all about money factor play a big part

For me half the fun of fish keeping is the hunt for a fish that's hard to find once you get that fish it takes a bit away from finding them

Also if you buy two young female rays it's not a bad thing not to have a male so badly at that time as it will give you time to grow the females and get a smaller male later on it stops your female getting beat to bits


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doyboy said:
It wouldn't and didn't stop me when buying my pearls becoz the quality of pearls I was looking for was only available from one breeder (Richard aka aquaman), I don't like having to breed brother and sister but good quality pearls in UK r hard to come by and some times you have to just go with it to get the end result u like.
If you was able to trace back the family tree of pure bread rays in UK I don't think there wouldn't be to many that are not related in some way due to the fact up until the last few years not many people breed rays so the breeding stock pile was low.

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That's a good point if you want higher grade you may have no choice but to go to the same breeder but if and when you have pups would you also sell pairs to the same person ?

I can honestly say my two big female p14 came from wild caught adults not because I bred them myself but because of the amount of spots they have
captive bred p14 have come along way in the last few years
The way they look now with the amount of spots they have is much more spotty
was this created by inter breeding who knows


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I talk to a guy in Australia allot and they have so few options over there. I don't think they care at all. overall it just comes down to you as the buyer what you want and if you care to ask and male sure. I bet brothers and sisters can and will still make very nice rays.

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This is another reason a chipping system wouldn't work
If you purchased a pair of Rays from the same breeder the micro chip numbers would have the same prefix
If that buyer then bred from the pups in a few years he would also need to provide his pups chip numbers showing the parents was in fact brother and sister

I don't think that anything will put people off breeding brother and sister
It's just strange we do think about it with rays but no one ever thinks twice about buying 2 or more fish from the same tank in a LFS which nearly always come from the same brood


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People who don't care; is exactly the root of the problem - be it dogs, cats, fish…

Encouraging sibling breeding is just frankly ridiculous and defeats the purpose of maintaining a healthy gene pool. Period.
 
Agreed very much. Is interested how we think of it with fish differently. When i was breeding sp44s i had an amazing dad and his sons were amazing and i just kept breeding them all together made some great great looking fish. Never really thought twice about it never saw any issues personally.

My question really would be about the above does breeding brothers and sisters really harm the gene pool for your group and the look of pups you will have? Or can it also better it at the same time?

I mean your going to move them on to other people who are going to Breed then for hybrids or whatever. I mean who knows. I'm not a genetics expert

T1KARMANN said:
This is another reason a chipping system wouldn't work
If you purchased a pair of Rays from the same breeder the micro chip numbers would have the same prefix
If that buyer then bred from the pups in a few years he would also need to provide his pups chip numbers showing the parents was in fact brother and sister

I don't think that anything will put people off breeding brother and sister
It's just strange we do think about it with rays but no one ever thinks twice about buying 2 or more fish from the same tank in a LFS which nearly always come from the same brood


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